.
fronobulax said:Terry Allan Hall said:If Fender does us all wrong, how many new Guilds will you, yourself, be buying? :?:
As many as I would have bought otherwise. I understand that when companies change ownership all assets and all liabilities may not be transferred to the new owner. It is potentially a clean slate for the new owners no matter how many consumers, suppliers, creditors and the like get screwed.
davismanLV said:Oh jeeze, Terry, don't get all high and mighty with me. You with your "SOME of us this and SOME of us that...." please.
I'd love it if they'd honor their lifetime warranty. I know all about integrity. But WE (you and I and everyone else commenting here) are not in control of what happens. And I can see both sides of this.
It's a lovely color RED, that font of yours. :wink:
Tom in Vegas
plaidseason said:When I was teenager I worked in a widely renowned seafood restaurant. Part of the reason they were/are widely renowned was their mantra that "the customer is always right." This meant that more often than not, even if you eat half of your shrimp platter before deciding to come up and complain that your food is cold . . . they're going to give a whole new, and definitely hot, shrimp platter. Will some people take advantage of this policy? Sure. But in the end, word of mouth can doa lot to promote your brand.
So when I tell people that I once had a Guild guitar replaced under warranty, and that I drove up to Westerly to drop it off, and that they replaced the guitar with no questions asked . . . that means a lot to people. It says, "this is a company that stands behind their product" and "this is a company that stands by their customers." Martin gets this. It's why they have a somewhat corny magazine with photos and letters from long time owners who are forever enamored of their brand. Fender, and every other guitar maker could learn a lot from them.
You don't move your brand around the country three more times . . . you build a new plant, or refurbish the existing place . . . because it's part of your identity. I bought my first Guild partly for the fact that they were made in New England.
You don't treat your dedicated customers suspiciously . . . you say, "what would Martin do" and then you take care of your long time customer. That satisfied customer then becomes further enamored of your brand and perhaps buys more guitars, or gear, and/or prompts his/her friends and family members to buy your guitars.
I've seen people make horrible buying decisions soley because Martin is so well renowned. I helped a friend buy a guitar once, and recommended an incredible used Guild DV6. But he wanted a Martin so bad, he bought one of those high pressure laminate Martins for the same price. In the end, he was happy . . . because he always wanted a Martin.
Guild should learn from all of this. They should push the New England craftsmanship angle. They should push the "dedicated to our customers" angle. They should push the "dedicated to our retailers" angle.
Otherwise . . . people are just going to continue picking high pressure laminate Martins. And who can blame them . . . there's a reputation and a story . . . and it's 100% true.
AlohaJoe said:Guild guitars started as a small company where the workers and management took pride in their work, pride in the quality of their guitars, and pride in their name. It is now a small division of a huge multinational company whose management is a long, long way from the sawdust in the shop. It's all just 'product' to them at this point and an individual customer is not as important as cost savings. I love my Corona X150, it's a fine guitar, but it was made by a very different company than my Hoboken D50 was. Somewhere along in that process, brand allegiance starts to look a little misguided.
twocorgis said:AlohaJoe said:Guild guitars started as a small company where the workers and management took pride in their work, pride in the quality of their guitars, and pride in their name. It is now a small division of a huge multinational company whose management is a long, long way from the sawdust in the shop. It's all just 'product' to them at this point and an individual customer is not as important as cost savings. I love my Corona X150, it's a fine guitar, but it was made by a very different company than my Hoboken D50 was. Somewhere along in that process, brand allegiance starts to look a little misguided.
Shame that it is, that's an area where Martin really shines Joe. To be doing what they have been doing under one owner in one place for so long tells me that they surely must be doing something right, and I'm sure their customer-centric ideology has a large part to do with that. I swore I'd never own another Martin after that dud of a '76 D28 that I owned in the early '80s. I'm just glad that I don't follow my own advice or I never would have bought the D18DC. :lol:
Having little or no regard for your customers might fly with cheap guitars and indeed might be necessary, but it has no place where Guild is trying to position themselves now. Martin and more recently Taylor have significantly and indelibly raised the bar. What plaidseason said!
Terry Allan Hall said:Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
twocorgis said:Terry Allan Hall said:Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
I'd LOVE to see that myself, but it will require a significant number of troops on the ground. Ain't happening yet... :roll:
Terry Allan Hall said:twocorgis said:[quote="Terry Allan Hall":3n4o1oc4]
Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
I'd LOVE to see that myself, but it will require a significant number of troops on the ground. Ain't happening yet... :roll:
I agree, and it's hard to be optimistic when Guild is such a small piece of the company's pie.twocorgis said:Terry Allan Hall said:Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
I'd LOVE to see that myself, but it will require a significant number of troops on the ground. Ain't happening yet... :roll:
AlohaJoe said:I agree, and it's hard to be optimistic when Guild is such a small piece of the company's pie.twocorgis said:Terry Allan Hall said:Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
I'd LOVE to see that myself, but it will require a significant number of troops on the ground. Ain't happening yet... :roll:
AlohaJoe said:If FMIC plays their cards right, builds high-quality Guilds, gets then in stores where people can get their hands on them and learns how to treat their customers responsibly, they may be able to return Guild to its rightful position as one of the top three acoustic guitar manufacturers in the world. I certainly hope so. Guild has always made great guitars, only to be outflanked by the marketing departments of the other two.
New Hartford has the skills. Only time will tell if FMIC is committed enough to put their marketing money and expertise to work rebuilding the Guild brand. So far their commitment seems a little tepid.
AlohaJoe said:I agree, and it's hard to be optimistic when Guild is such a small piece of the company's pie.twocorgis said:Terry Allan Hall said:Seems to me that if enough past customers, and potential new customers, let them (FMIC) know what we'll stand for...and what we won't...the situation just might improve for Guild and Guild owners.
And FMIC Guild might, in time, come to be a SERIOUS contender for C.F. Martin's crown.
I'd LOVE to see that myself, but it will require a significant number of troops on the ground. Ain't happening yet... :roll:
The Fender conglomerate wants to continue to sell cheap guitars to first time buyers while expanding (evermore) to include both high end and mid-level Guilds, Gretsch, SWR, Squier, Jackson, Charvel, Hamer, Tacoma, Sunn and about 5 other smaller brands. Unfortunately, as the loyal customers for each of those brands become a smaller and smaller portion of Fender's business their voices carry less and less weight to management. Fender wants to conquer the world and become all things musical, while Martin has consistently focused on doing one thing well, and therein lies the difference.
If FMIC plays their cards right, builds high-quality Guilds, gets then in stores where people can get their hands on them and learns how to treat their customers responsibly, they may be able to return Guild to its rightful position as one of the top three acoustic guitar manufacturers in the world. I certainly hope so. Guild has always made great guitars, only to be outflanked by the marketing departments of the other two.
New Hartford has the skills. Only time will tell if FMIC is committed enough to put their marketing money and expertise to work rebuilding the Guild brand. So far their commitment seems a little tepid.
I hope you're right... I would love to make that tour Sandy! The best part would be meeting you and the other fine Guilders in person. And I'd be happy to have my perspective altered too. I'm sure the folks in New Hartford are making some really fine guitars. I take nothing away from them or the work they do. I wish I could find one to play!twocorgis said:I think the commitment is there. What remains to be seen is if their aim is true. Too bad you're not coming this October, Joe. The tour will alter your perspective a bit. 8)
capnjuan said:Sandy got his guitar's neck re-set at what I understand is a facility that no longer exists. The end of that facility roughly coincides with the revised (cough cough) warranty requirement that any warrantable guitar has to have been purchased from an authorized Guild dealer.
My apologies Sandy; I mis-read 'going' for 'gone'.twocorgis said:... Like Chaz, that's about all I can say right now...