Fender is not honoring older Guild lifetime warranties.

[JimbowF212]

This makes me wonder how they stand behind the ones they make in NH now. I don't trust that they will. I have dealt with Martin personally on many repairs and they are very easy to deal with. I have never had them give me any problem with anything covered under the warrenty. The only time they refused to cover repairs under warrenty was when my dad passed away and they wouldn't cover repairs needed on his old D-28 because His warrenty died with him. BTW Martin does not ask for an original receipts or anything like that, they have the original owner register the guitar with them and then they send them an original owners card, they also have a link on their website where you can register it online. Also their dealers fill out the registraition form for you before you leave the store.

 

[twocorgis]

This makes me wonder how they stand behind the ones they make in NH now. I don't trust that they will. I have dealt with Martin personally on many repairs and they are very easy to deal with. I have never had them give me any problem with anything covered under the warrenty. The only time they refused to cover repairs under warrenty was when my dad passed away and they wouldn't cover repairs needed on his old D-28 because His warrenty died with him.

As an owner of a now 38 year old Guild that had a superb warranty neck reset done last year, I'm happy. Didn't cost me a dime other than the shipping charge down. I could certainly complain about how long it took, but not the quality of the work. FMIC's warranty towards older Guilds is not clearly defined, but it certainly helps if you know who to talk to. 8)

 

[Dr. Spivey]

Lots of interesting points brought up in this thread.

Fender needs to do a few things regarding Guild warranties. They need to be upfront about the older guitars. This deal of "case by case basis" is nonsense and does nothing to inspire consumer confidence. They need to honor their legal obligations, whatever they may be and if they decide to exceed those obligations, put it in writing and get the dealers, customers and repair people on the same page.

Unless they plan on moving repair to New Hartford I don't see an upside to closing Nashville. Another thing that gives me cause for doubt. Same with repairs taking more than 3-4 months.

Guild has done a lot of positive things in the past year or so and this whole issue of warranty/repair is just giving them a black eye.

 

[jgwoods]

I guess it's a good thing I don't run Guild or Martin. If I did I wouldn't do free neck resets on old guitars. It is a given that most guitars will need a neck reset after some period of time- 5-25 years, whatever. I can see where they should be done as warranty repairs for 5 years or so, after that it is simple wear and tear. Perhaps a sliding cost scale up from 5 to 10 years and then charge full cost after that.
Frankly I think one of the reasons why a lot of guitars get "over built" is to avoid having to reset necks down the road under warranty. It has resulted in a lot of guitars that don't sound that good.

 

[davismanLV]

I agree jg, or be very specific about what is covered under the warranty. But mostly I think there should be time limits. No one would take their old beater car that's been 200,000+ miles back to the dealership and expect a new transmission, would they? Nope. Things have a useful lifespan and after that they require major work to keep them going.

Sometimes I think y'all are conflicted. You expect a lifetime warranty to be honored and do any and all work related to the guitars in a timely manner and neck resets after 25 years done as warranty work.... and at the same time you hope that Guild as a brand name stays viable. Well, if you suck all the possible profit out of the item, and overburden the company with repairs and warranty work for free.... then the company is not gonna survive. They're difficult items to make utilizing very specifically skilled labor and materials. I don't think you can have EVERYTHING. If they did all the things you expect them to do, they'd be out of business in a very short amount of time.

I can see reasonable time limits on warranties and prompt service as good things.

Basically what I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways. And I'm not saying that FMIC is doing everything right. But many times you're asking for things that conflict. Do you want them to continue making Guilds? Or do you want them to spend their time and resources rebuilding y'alls 35 year old guitars?

This is just my opinion, which is held in very high regard by probably ME ONLY. I'm just seeing both sides of this. Anyone?
Tom in Vegas

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

<snip>

Basically what I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways. And I'm not saying that FMIC is doing everything right. But many times you're asking for things that conflict. Do you want them to continue making Guilds? Or do you want them to spend their time and resources rebuilding y'alls 35 year old guitars?

<snip>

Tom in Vegas

Well said, Mr. Vegas.

~nw

 

[JimbowF212]

I agree jg, or be very specific about what is covered under the warranty. But mostly I think there should be time limits. No one would take their old beater car that's been 200,000+ miles back to the dealership and expect a new transmission, would they? Nope. Things have a useful lifespan and after that they require major work to keep them going.

Sometimes I think y'all are conflicted. You expect a lifetime warranty to be honored and do any and all work related to the guitars in a timely manner and neck resets after 25 years done as warranty work.... and at the same time you hope that Guild as a brand name stays viable. Well, if you suck all the possible profit out of the item, and overburden the company with repairs and warranty work for free.... then the company is not gonna survive. They're difficult items to make utilizing very specifically skilled labor and materials. I don't think you can have EVERYTHING. If they did all the things you expect them to do, they'd be out of business in a very short amount of time.

I can see reasonable time limits on warranties and prompt service as good things.

Basically what I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways. And I'm not saying that FMIC is doing everything right. But many times you're asking for things that conflict. Do you want them to continue making Guilds? Or do you want them to spend their time and resources rebuilding y'alls 35 year old guitars?

This is just my opinion, which is held in very high regard by probably ME ONLY. I'm just seeing both sides of this. Anyone?
Tom in Vegas

Tom;
I see your point but, in this case we need to stick to apples or oranges. Point, Martin has beeen in business for over 175 yrs and have been making guitars since 1833 and they know the ins and outs of what they do. That is why they have a warrenty that covers neck resets, because they already know form past experience that the neck is going to need this attention because of the properties of the woods used to make a guitar, that is why Taylor, Collings, Bourgeois and a host of other makers use a bolt on neck because it is easier to do this work on and costs less. They sacrifice the tonal enhancements of a dovetail neck joint, that Martin and Guild use, to cut the cost of warrenty repairs. Well, knowing the inherent properties of this type of neck joint Martin covers this repair under warrenty to the original owner on a guitar up to 40 yrs old and will probably go longer if you contact the warrenty dept. Well, if Guild chooses to use this type of joint they should warrenty a neck reset to the original owner also and if FMIC wants to keep their customers loyal they would do good to take two peices of advice.
1) finish the guitars before they put the necks on, as Martin does which makes a neck reset easier.
2) Take care of Guild owners that were there before they were.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I agree jg, or be very specific about what is covered under the warranty. But mostly I think there should be time limits. No one would take their old beater car that's been 200,000+ miles back to the dealership and expect a new transmission, would they? Nope. Things have a useful lifespan and after that they require major work to keep them going.

Sometimes I think y'all are conflicted. You expect a lifetime warranty to be honored and do any and all work related to the guitars in a timely manner and neck resets after 25 years done as warranty work.... and at the same time you hope that Guild as a brand name stays viable. Well, if you suck all the possible profit out of the item, and overburden the company with repairs and warranty work for free.... then the company is not gonna survive. They're difficult items to make utilizing very specifically skilled labor and materials. I don't think you can have EVERYTHING. If they did all the things you expect them to do, they'd be out of business in a very short amount of time.

I can see reasonable time limits on warranties and prompt service as good things.

Basically what I'm saying is, you can't have it both ways. And I'm not saying that FMIC is doing everything right. But many times you're asking for things that conflict. Do you want them to continue making Guilds? Or do you want them to spend their time and resources rebuilding y'alls 35 year old guitars?

This is just my opinion, which is held in very high regard by probably ME ONLY. I'm just seeing both sides of this. Anyone?
Tom in Vegas

If I buy a brand-new guitar offered w/ a lifetime warranty, I paid that $$$, in part, for that lifetime warranty.

If the guitar has a limited (to, say 5 or 10 years) warranty, I'll expect pay considerably less or buy something else entirely.

I'll pay even less for a throw-away guitar, obviously.

Fender bought Guild...Fender should honor Guild's warranty exactly as Guild did, or not call 'em Guild's.

 

[fronobulax]

Fender bought Guild...Fender should honor Guild's warranty exactly as Guild did, or not call 'em Guild's.

When you figure out how to do the latter, let us know.

 

[davismanLV]

Jim, I understand, but taking on the HUGE LIABILITY of "lifetime warranty" work of a company that came before.... could be financially destructive. So if following your point #2 undermines the profit margin to the point that it is no longer feasible to continue the Guild name, you're okay with that?

Guild is not Martin. If they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not sure which apples or oranges you're comparing.

@TAH, everyone is always saying Guild is the less expensive brand (generally speaking). Paying LESS for MORE guitar. I think you've already gotten your value out of the instrument. And now if you drive the profit margin to be even LESS by demanding that lifetime warranties are honored just as Guild did in the old days..... and the brand goes away entirely because of that..... you're okay with that?

I know what I paid for my Guild. I've gotten my money's worth, and THEN SOME.

Tom in Vegas

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Jim, I understand, but taking on the HUGE LIABILITY of "lifetime warranty" work of a company that came before.... could be financially destructive. So if following your point #2 undermines the profit margin to the point that it is no longer feasible to continue the Guild name, you're okay with that?

Guild is not Martin. If they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm not sure which apples or oranges you're comparing.

@TAH, everyone is always saying Guild is the less expensive brand (generally speaking). Paying LESS for MORE guitar. I think you've already gotten your value out of the instrument. And now if you drive the profit margin to be even LESS by demanding that lifetime warranties are honored just as Guild did in the old days..... and the brand goes away entirely because of that..... you're okay with that?

I know what I paid for my Guild. I've gotten my money's worth, and THEN SOME.

Tom in Vegas

Fender bought Guild...Fender should honor Guild's warranty exactly as Guild did, or not call 'em Guild's.

When you figure out how to do the latter, let us know.

Fender should've figured all that out before they bought Guild...if they can't, they shouldn't've done so.

How many Guild neck resets do they get a week? 2 or 3? 10 or 20? Then have one master repairman, and sufficient staff, to handle those and the Big Boys take home a bit less gravy for a while...otoh, by honoring those warranties, more Guild fans will feel safe in buying future Guilds...right?

If Fender does us all wrong, how many new Guilds will you, yourself, be buying? :?:

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I thought that there was a year where Fender cut off Guild warranties.
Does anyone remember reading this?
It seems like it was around 10 years before Fender bought Guild.

Another compromise would be to pro-rate the warranty work.
Say a guitar that was made from 1 to 5 years before Fender ownership would cost the owner 10% of the repair cost.
6 to 10 years before, 25%
Anything older than 10 years before fender, 50%.

At least this would be something.

 

[davismanLV]

@TMG, yes, it would be a RULE and a POLICY and although some people might not like it or believe it's fair.... everyone would know where they stood. I'm sure they have a policy, wouldn't you think? If they don't, I'd be making one pronto. Tom in Vegas

 

[twocorgis]

@TMG, yes, it would be a RULE and a POLICY and although some people might not like it or believe it's fair.... everyone would know where they stood. I'm sure they have a policy, wouldn't you think? If they don't, I'd be making one pronto. Tom in Vegas

You know Tom, maybe my guitar was a bit of an aberration, but I found out after almost 38 years that my D50 had a defective neck set from the get go. What would you do in cases like that? After all, it's a lifetime warranty against defects in workmanship, correct?

 

[JimbowF212]

If Fender does us all wrong, how many new Guilds will you, yourself, be buying? :?:[/quote]
Point well taken!!!

If FMIC wants to sell Guilds like the Big Guys sell theirs then they will have to give a little more wiggle room to their dealers and stand behind the products they make like the Big Boys Do. It's as simple as that. I think I would like to see Guild as the:

Leader of the Pack!!!

Hey I have an idea, how about if LTG buys out the name from FMIC and takes it over and runs it like it should be.

 

[fronobulax]

If Fender does us all wrong, how many new Guilds will you, yourself, be buying? :?:

As many as I would have bought otherwise. I understand that when companies change ownership all assets and all liabilities may not be transferred to the new owner. It is potentially a clean slate for the new owners no matter how many consumers, suppliers, creditors and the like get screwed. Just ask the folks who were awarded damages from GM and Chrysler because of injury due to faulty product who will probably never get paid because both companies were effectively reorganized under new ownership.

 

[hideglue]

Why fan the flames of a 15 year old transaction?
What in heck am I missing? Where are we getting all this shinola about changing ownership & dropping warranty???

 

[capnjuan]

It's my understanding that obligations; liabilities ... either contingent liabilities (like meeting warranty obligations) or unsecured accounts payables can only be discharged in bankruptcy. Since FMIC acquired what was then a going concern, it's unlikely that it can, will, or should just walk away from bona fide warranty claims. The trick seems to be distinguishing which claims should be honored and which ones refused.

Whether it's Martin honoring one of possibly hundreds of warranty claims every year or the several neck re-sets done by Guild that have been documented here over the last four years (that have to be compared with that many or more refusals), I think the only conclusion that can reliably be drawn is that due to guitar-o-nomics, Martin and Guild would prefer to do as few as possible.

What in heck am I missing? Where are we getting all this shinola about changing ownership & dropping warranty???

If we're short on facts, sometimes we make them up But anybody who thinks that Guild is waiting around hoping for some 30-35 year-old neck set cows to come home is mistaken. It would be reasonable for them to do as many as they thought necessary and could afford for good public relations/marketing reasons and tell everybody else ... well ... tell them no.

 

[davismanLV]

@TMG, yes, it would be a RULE and a POLICY and although some people might not like it or believe it's fair.... everyone would know where they stood. I'm sure they have a policy, wouldn't you think? If they don't, I'd be making one pronto. Tom in Vegas

You know Tom, maybe my guitar was a bit of an aberration, but I found out after almost 38 years that my D50 had a defective neck set from the get go. What would you do in cases like that? After all, it's a lifetime warranty against defects in workmanship, correct?

Well, Sandy, I don't know the exact situation with your particular guitar. If the neck has needed a reset all along, why did it take so long to recognize it and get them to take action? 38 years is a LONG TIME. And if it didn't show itself for 38 years and played normally all that time, is it really considered a "defect"? Maybe it's just the hands of time that have played havoc with your instrument. So what I'm saying is, how long should it take to notice a defective neck set? And if it plays normally and well for 38 years, is it really considered defective? Seems you had a pretty good run with that guitar. So I'm confused about the particulars of your specific guitar.

If Fender does us all wrong, how many new Guilds will you, yourself, be buying? :?:

As many as I would have bought otherwise. I understand that when companies change ownership all assets and all liabilities may not be transferred to the new owner. It is potentially a clean slate for the new owners no matter how many consumers, suppliers, creditors and the like get screwed.

Exactly. When I made my choice some 18 years ago between my Guild and a Taylor (it had come down to those two, and I'm sure Taylor has some type of warranty) the specifics of any warranty were negligible. My decision was based on sound and playability.

This debate will continue on, I'm sure.
Tom in Vegas

 

[twocorgis]

You know Tom, maybe my guitar was a bit of an aberration, but I found out after almost 38 years that my D50 had a defective neck set from the get go. What would you do in cases like that? After all, it's a lifetime warranty against defects in workmanship, correct?

Well, Sandy, I don't know the exact situation with your particular guitar. If the neck has needed a reset all along, why did it take so long to recognize it and get them to take action? 38 years is a LONG TIME. And if it didn't show itself for 38 years and played normally all that time, is it really considered a "defect"? Maybe it's just the hands of time that have played havoc with your instrument. So what I'm saying is, how long should it take to notice a defective neck set? And if it plays normally and well for 38 years, is it really considered defective? Seems you had a pretty good run with that guitar. So I'm confused about the particulars of your specific guitar.
Tom in Vegas

Well, the specifics of the guitar was that it always did have a faulty neck set, I was just too uninformed to realize it. For a long time, I was too busy playing it to realize there was something wrong with it, and then it sat for a very long time not being played at all. I've known since the Westerly plant was still open that it needed a neck reset, I just never did anything about it. It didn't really matter, because I wasn't really playing it anyway.

Now that I'm playing again, and have bought a few (cough cough) guitars that do have perfect neck sets, I have learned a lot. The internet in general and places like this in particular have educated me tremendously. I have come to realize that the D50 was never right, and the fact that it's so much better than it ever was before the work was done makes me realize that. It's incredible what a difference the neck reset made to every aspect of the guitar. It also tells me how crappy the Martin D28 and the Gibson J50 were I compared it to when I bought the D50 back in 1976. If a Guild with a poorly set neck was obviously better than either of them, how bad were they?