Fender is not honoring older Guild lifetime warranties.

[fronobulax]

Al, I don't think Dave G is a member here, or at least I've never seen one of his posts. Kim Keller is however, and I think he had a lot to do with Fender warranting the neck reset on my D50. If you're reading this Kim, THANKS BUDDY! 8)

Discussed here but I don't think Dave G. registered under any of the suggestions. Probably just as well considering the number of people who get in "job trouble" because of their online activities.

I can't find the thread but we even "helped" Kim find and buy a Pilot bass.

 

[adorshki]

I was only making a humorous observation about how uncommon his specific situation probably is.

As was I...

Even though it seems like the the smiley and laugher emticons get overused, sometimes the dry deadpan stuff just doen't get through, does it? (insert EMPATHY emoticon here, happens to me too..) :wink:

I am, however, the original owner and I rediscovered my receipt recently and expect to be able to present it if required. Thus, if a defect in workmanship or materials was discovered nearly 40 years later then I do meet the presumed prerequisites for a legitimate warranty claim.

As do I, but I have the luxury of falling under Fender's ownership of Guild, which they appear to have fixed as "the cutoff date" for warranty claims.
Won't rehash all the "caveats", but even though Fender may not be LEGALLY required to honor these warranties, I think ETHICALLY they should. The actual exposure, ie people who still have their receipts after even 30 years, is probably incredibly small.
What's the real risk?
It occurs to me that perhaps just evaluating all the instruments SUBMITTED for warranty service, whether validated or not, could be a pretty significant expense.
As for neck resets, I never even heard of 'em til I got here. I always just assumed a well maintained instrument would "last forever". Now I think I have to defer to Hideglue's far greater experience and accept that for the acoustic guitas built lightly for best tone, it's probably inevitable. Maybe the analogy is something like: "Sooner or later even the best built engine will need to be rebuilt". Because stress on components builds up during actual use, even in the absence of visible wear.
I see Kostas just posted that even Martin withdrew the warranty on necksets a couple of years ago.
So that eliminates the "Martin does it" argument.

 

[chazmo]

Folks,

I've been sitting here, biting my tongue for a while as this thread has progressed. While I still can't say much, I would like to try to change the mood and expectations of LTGers based on what folks have been saying/reading here:

1. I have to assure you -- we *are* being heard. It just happens that we're collectively working from a paucity of information. Hopefully, that can be cleared up in a few weeks and we can all share some solid (and complete) information out to everyone.

2. I mentioned earlier the fact (and it *is* fact) that things are in flux in Fender service. It's not fair to make any assumptions or jump off a cliff at a time like this; I'm sure you guys understand that. And, to reiterate, my recommendation to my LTG friends is to wait a while before trying to deal with warrantee repairs.

3. Along those lines, Sandy's information about Nashville earlier was correct, I'm afraid, but not (nearly) everything has been said, and cannot be said until the changes are finished.

4. I know I'm going to sound like a Fender shill again, but I have to tell you that Fender is doing exactly the opposite of screwing Guild right now. They are investing heavily in service as a company, particularly Guild! Again, details are not shareable yet, but I think we will be excited/happy when the details unfold.

I hope that helps.

 

[twocorgis]

Folks,

3. Along those lines, Sandy's information about Nashville earlier was correct, I'm afraid, but not (nearly) everything has been said, and cannot be said until the changes are finished.

Chaz,

After a fairly long conversation with Thane at the Nashville shop, there's quite a bit more that i know now, but I didn't really want to say too much as a lot of what he told me I promised not to repeat. The good news is that it's pretty much all good, except for the guys that are losing their jobs in Nashville.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I still feel that the new cost of Martins include a neck reset, when needed.
Guilds were a lot less money, so I can see them not wanting to do as many resets down the road.

It all boils down to what Guild/ Fender wants to do for their customers.

On new Martin guitars, neck resets are no longer warranted for the life of the instrument. Happened a couple of years back. All of the guitars built prior to that change over are still covered, but any guitars bought since are NOT covered for neck resets (unless it is within the first year or so (forget exactly when the change over in warranty coverage occurred).

Kostas

Are you sure about this.
I asked over at the Martin Guitar Forum and they have not heard this.
There is a rumor there that old Martins may no longer get warrented neck resets but that is just a rumor.


Now back to the topic about Guild Warranty work.
We don't care what is true or false, we just want to complain!
Isn't that the American way?

In reality, I just hope that Fender will in fact take good stewardship of our beloved Guild Company.
It sounds like they will.

 

[kostask]

One of my luthier buddies is a Martin authorized repair center (guy). Martin has been refusing Neck reset warranty coverage on guitars that are only a few years old, and Martin said that policy has changed regarding neck resets. Also, Martin seems to want to want to do the resets themselves, as they are now requesting that owners ship the guitars to them directly, instead of having the guitar work done by the locally authorized warranty center.

Kostas

 

[adorshki]

One of my luthier buddies is a Martin authorized repair center (guy). Martin has been refusing Neck reset warranty coverage on guitars that are only a few years old, and Martin said that policy has changed regarding neck resets. Also, Martin seems to want to want to do the resets themselves, as they are now requesting that owners ship the guitars to them directly, instead of having the guitar work done by the locally authorized warranty center.
Kostas

Sounds like a pretty reliable source. 8)
From you I wouldn't expect anything less. :wink:

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have to wonder why a guitar that is only a few years old would need a reset unless it was abused.
I tried to contact Martin direct but they didn't answer the number that I called. I will try again tomorrow.
This just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Don]

Jeez Chazmo! Could you be anymore cryptic? I'll be on pins and picket fences until you explain this. :lol:

 

[kostask]

In this case, the owner was a new guitar player. The guitar was built with a shallow neck angle. Owner didn't know any better until he brought the guitar in for a set-up to my buddy. My buddy, who the owner was referred to by Martin, determined that the neck was set improperly, and provided all the forms and measurements to Martin. Martin's response was that neck resets were considered to be a wear issue, not a manufacturing defect, and my the neck reset had to be paid for by the owner.

Martin, while deserving of all the respect in the world, is not above playing some games with warranty work. My friend had to have a mjor fight with Martin's customer service people over some finish issues on some mid-1990s guitars. In this case, warranty was finally extended to cover the problem, but the guitar had to be sent in.

Kostas

 

[fronobulax]

I have to wonder why a guitar that is only a few years old would need a reset unless it was abused.

twocorgi's guitar was apparently improperly assembled at the factory and was missed by whatever quality control was in place at the time. But, if a guitar left the factory correctly assembled then it is hard to imagine why it would need a reset within a few years if it had not been abused.

chazmo's comments noted, but what started this thread was the refusal of Fender to honor a warranty on a pre-1995 instrument. Can we uninformed speculators and rumor mongers hope that Fender would honor pre-1995 warranties once the facilities and policies for dealing with warranties for current production are in place?

 

[cjd-player]

But, if a guitar left the factory correctly assembled then it is hard to imagine why it would need a reset within a few years if it had not been abused.

One of the dirty secrets of guitar building:
Any manufacturer who hand cuts a dovetail neck joint has to use bridges of various heights because control of the neck angle is so squirrely. Even Dick Boak of Martin admits this in the Martin Shop Tour series of YouTube vids. Otherwise, the saddle heights would be all over the place to make up for the varying neck angles.

So you assemble the guitar, put a straight edge along the neck, and determine what height of bridge is needed to line up with the neck. That gives the appearance of a proper neck angle to anyone who sights down the neck or puts a straightedge on. That does not mean that the neck angle is optimum for the string tension.

A guitar with a neck angle that is not optimum, especially if it is on the shallow side, will likely need a neck reset much sooner than a guitar with a proper neck angle.

However, the need for a neck reset is not caused by the neck joint. The need for a reset is caused by the guitar body moving or starting to collapse, not the neck. So although the attention is on the neck, the body is the culprit.

 

[chazmo]

[...]chazmo's comments noted, but what started this thread was the refusal of Fender to honor a warranty on a pre-1995 instrument. Can we uninformed speculators and rumor mongers hope that Fender would honor pre-1995 warranties once the facilities and policies for dealing with warranties for current production are in place?

Fair question, frono, as indeed it was right from the start of this thread. The question of corporate policy here is certainly open for debate. I have (and know of) no information to add to the discussion. I only ask people to abstain from conjecture, rumor, and sitting uncomfortably on picket fences as the changes to Guild CS unfold.

 

[hideglue]

Any manufacturer who hand cuts a dovetail neck joint has to use bridges of various heights...

Guild bridge installers chose between (4) bins of various heights. So, yes, guitar building is not an exact science.

 

[chazmo]

Any manufacturer who hand cuts a dovetail neck joint has to use bridges of various heights...

Guild bridge installers chose between (4) bins of various heights. So, yes, guitar building is not an exact science.

I didn't notice if that was the case in NH, hideglue... My tour group watched Mike Shishkov install one in final finishing. Do you know if it's still done that way (a choice of various sizes)? I'll bet it is (but again I didn't notice). I do know that NH has a machine that can make way more bridges than they need for production volumes.

 

[hideglue]

Any manufacturer who hand cuts a dovetail neck joint has to use bridges of various heights...

Guild bridge installers chose between (4) bins of various heights. So, yes, guitar building is not an exact science.

I didn't notice if that was the case in NH, hideglue... My tour group watched Mike Shishkov install one in final finishing. Do you know if it's still done that way (a choice of various sizes)?

Chaz,
I don't know if it's still done that way, though I suspect it is.
And I almost always preface my Guild experience w/ "(Westerly) Guild", as I should have here.

 

[adorshki]

Jeez Chazmo! Could you be anymore cryptic? I'll be on pins and picket fences until you explain this. :lol:

Way back somewhere in one of the "Let's Meet Guild 2010" threads, it was mentioned that "bringing repair work in-house" (ie New Hartford). was a "possibility". Or that at least that's what current NH management "hoped to do eventually". My quote may not be word-for-word accurate but I distinctly remember the concept being addressed.
It would be premature, at best, to ASSUME that this is what's actually happening, but I would like to HOPE that this is what's happening.
Just to help ease your stress.

 

[plaidseason]

They should just move all repairs to 23 Industrial Drive, Westerly, RI (22 Meridian St., New London, CT is my second choice).

 

[hideglue]

They should just move all repairs to 23 Industrial Drive, Westerly, RI (22 Meridian St., New London, CT is my second choice).

Thanks, plaid. Well said!


(*ahem* your check is in the mail)

 

[chazmo]

They should just move all repairs to 23 Industrial Drive, Westerly, RI (22 Meridian St., New London, CT is my second choice).

Thanks, plaid. Well said!


(*ahem* your check is in the mail)

You get a box of Tastycakes with your neck reset....