Zelja
Senior Member
Great summary Dave & Kent.
Bad Music Decisions
- Thread starter tjmangum
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learnintoplay62
Senior Member
This has been a very cool thread, thanks everyone. I am /was not privy to any inside information to the music industry so this is just one consumers and music lovers opinion. Love the post (Best ) Beatles , miss Kieth Moon terribly, like Charlie Watts. He doesn't look like he should be in a rock n roll band , but HE IS. :wink: What I do know is that the business managers have really done criminal acts of fraud against musicians and most of the time got away with it :x I once heard Phil Collins? talk about the fact that after touring non stop from say the mid 70's thru the early 80's ( and grossing huge amounts of $$ )then finding out that they were broke :shock: Their lawyers and managers stole most of it. So I guess hiring lawyers might be a wrong business decision :wink:
As far as music evolution, the turntable era was the best to me. Albums where so personalized, Elton John's Tumbleweed connection comes to mind , CD's , mp3's just don't offer that. I think that's a bad decision.
There is a Sony executive in my extended family who from what I understand made millions in the 80"s , 90's, thru early 2000's. She was out of a job by 2007 because of the low record sales and drastic change and as someone earlier said, lack of foresight. I honestly don't think they knew they created a digital giant that would squish them.
A veer coming :shock:
The advance of the digital evolution ,has been wonder for many businesses , however, on the other hand it has systematically devastated many many others.
For example, the loss of employees in the guitar building world. It cost companies large amounts of revenue for R&D, renovating the physical buildings to accommodate the new equipment and a large learning curve for the remaining employees many of whom could not or would not embrace it. I believe that is one of the reasons many makers moved over seas or imported guits from Asia.
Another example is the death of the newspaper. When desk top publishing came around , it put many type setters and designers out of a job almost over night. Oh how these news companies embraced it. Lower costs from hiring younger employees who were familiar with the programs and lower wages, different benefits etc. NOW however, all they do is cry about low reader ship. It was great for them 20 years ago, but the same technology they funded has cut their head off.
Anyway, just saying out loud and it's been bothering me lately since a number of my friends have lost jobs for similar reasons.
Mods please move if needed.
As far as music evolution, the turntable era was the best to me. Albums where so personalized, Elton John's Tumbleweed connection comes to mind , CD's , mp3's just don't offer that. I think that's a bad decision.
There is a Sony executive in my extended family who from what I understand made millions in the 80"s , 90's, thru early 2000's. She was out of a job by 2007 because of the low record sales and drastic change and as someone earlier said, lack of foresight. I honestly don't think they knew they created a digital giant that would squish them.
A veer coming :shock:
The advance of the digital evolution ,has been wonder for many businesses , however, on the other hand it has systematically devastated many many others.
For example, the loss of employees in the guitar building world. It cost companies large amounts of revenue for R&D, renovating the physical buildings to accommodate the new equipment and a large learning curve for the remaining employees many of whom could not or would not embrace it. I believe that is one of the reasons many makers moved over seas or imported guits from Asia.
Another example is the death of the newspaper. When desk top publishing came around , it put many type setters and designers out of a job almost over night. Oh how these news companies embraced it. Lower costs from hiring younger employees who were familiar with the programs and lower wages, different benefits etc. NOW however, all they do is cry about low reader ship. It was great for them 20 years ago, but the same technology they funded has cut their head off.
Anyway, just saying out loud and it's been bothering me lately since a number of my friends have lost jobs for similar reasons.
Mods please move if needed.
southernGuild
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Enjoying this whole thread myself. And Kent, Yes, great rundown on the nature of the industry. Makes sence.
Now I know what my grandfather was talking about when he lamented the age of the "horseless carriage"...
Every generation goes through it, it simply moves much faster now.
From DigitalStats:
"Time spent to reach 50 million users:
Radio: 38 years
TV: 13 years
Internet: 4 years
iPod: 3 years
Facebook: 2 years
In 1984 there were only one thousand devices in the world capable of accessing the Internet. Eight years later this had reached one million. Last year it reached one billion, and there will be little surprise if this figure doubles within the next few years."
walrus
Every generation goes through it, it simply moves much faster now.
From DigitalStats:
"Time spent to reach 50 million users:
Radio: 38 years
TV: 13 years
Internet: 4 years
iPod: 3 years
Facebook: 2 years
In 1984 there were only one thousand devices in the world capable of accessing the Internet. Eight years later this had reached one million. Last year it reached one billion, and there will be little surprise if this figure doubles within the next few years."
walrus
southernGuild
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:shock: Walrus......Now that puts things into perspective. :shock:
Beatles...bad music decisions. None really (musically speaking), but magical Mystery Tour Movie was ill conceived and still an embarrassing movie to watch. Trying run a business (Apple) was really stupid. Letting the "Get Back" project (a cool idea) turn into a fiasco was easily avoidable if they had been working together.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Hey as far as I'm concerned, the "Death Cab For Cutie" number redeems the whole flick, it even makes up for "Your Mother Should Know".jmac said:
southernGuild
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8) "The bus. It's ten miles north on the Dunesbury Road, and they're having a lovely time!" --Paul McCarteney in Magical Mystery Tourjmac said:
I like "Your Mother Should Know" if only to see Lennon's face with the constant fake smile... It's pretty clear he wasn't into it!
walrus
walrus
idealassets
Senior Member
I really don't think music media, i.e. cassettes, CD's, etc. has much to do with music decisions, after all it is what it is (or was).
Here's a no brainer, how about the "genius" idea of hiring the Hells Angels as "security" at the Altamont Speedway concert in 1969, that resulted in Marty Balin getting knocked out cold while on stage, and 2(?) deaths, among many other serious injuries. That was just after the Stones, and the Burrito Brothers stopped playing and told the entire audience to calm down. In the bad music decision department, this incident of bringing in the Angels definitely rates as bad.
Here's a no brainer, how about the "genius" idea of hiring the Hells Angels as "security" at the Altamont Speedway concert in 1969, that resulted in Marty Balin getting knocked out cold while on stage, and 2(?) deaths, among many other serious injuries. That was just after the Stones, and the Burrito Brothers stopped playing and told the entire audience to calm down. In the bad music decision department, this incident of bringing in the Angels definitely rates as bad.
learnintoplay62
Senior Member
How about the Rolling Stones during the 80"s, Start me up for instance. Their wardrobe was uhm... just plain ugly. It took a while to stop laughing at them and I guess they took that to the bank. Still ugly though.
dougdnh
Member
-Vee-Jay records letting the Beatles slip out of their hands
-The Kingsmen's lead singer quitting the band shortly after they recorded Louie Louie, before it became a mega hit.
-The Kingsmen's lead singer quitting the band shortly after they recorded Louie Louie, before it became a mega hit.
Dutchmaple Dave
Junior Member
Chazmo said:
Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis might have been a bad music decision for Peter Gabriel but it wound up being good for Genesis.
Denny Laine leaving the Moody Blues was great for the Moody Blues. It worked out for Denny too.
Arguably, Roger Waters leaving Pink Floyd was good for Pink Floyd
John's separation from Yoko was a good decision.
Denny Laine leaving the Moody Blues was great for the Moody Blues. It worked out for Denny too.
Arguably, Roger Waters leaving Pink Floyd was good for Pink Floyd
John's separation from Yoko was a good decision.
adorshki
Reverential Member
:shock:jmac said:
That's a joke, right?
"Revolution", "Instant Karma" the whole of "Working Class Hero" happened while partnered with Yoko.
Away from Yoko we got "Drunk in LA".
"Walls and Bridges", made while he was away from Yoko, is my least favorite Lennon album. I don't even own it anymore, I let a buddy buy it off me.
Back with Yoko we got "Kiss Kiss Kiss", "Walking on Thin Ice", and "Nobody Told Me", although I'll admit I'm not big on most of Double Fantasy or Milk and Honey either.
Far as I'm concerned, getting back with Yoko was a better decision.
Jmac, I luv ya bro, but I am an unabashed fan of Yoko, evil rumors and all.
If he never went back to her, they never would have had Sean - clearly John's pride and joy (albeit for much too short a time).
I, too, have no problems with Yoko - I love "Walking on Thin Ice" - that's John on the great guitar on that song. And Stevie Nicks totally ripped off the riff from that song for "Seventeen".
My own theory after years of "Beatle study" is that without meeting Yoko, John would have joined the many rockers who died of a drug overdose very early. He was certainly heading that way.
But we disagree on "Walls and Bridges" - I love it!
walrus
I, too, have no problems with Yoko - I love "Walking on Thin Ice" - that's John on the great guitar on that song. And Stevie Nicks totally ripped off the riff from that song for "Seventeen".
My own theory after years of "Beatle study" is that without meeting Yoko, John would have joined the many rockers who died of a drug overdose very early. He was certainly heading that way.
But we disagree on "Walls and Bridges" - I love it!
walrus
adorshki
Reverential Member
I gotta admit I appreciate it more now than when new. It's my buddy's favorite Lennon because he thinks it's John's happiest. (walrus said:
) I primarily revolted against "Whatever Gets you through the Night" although I'll always have soft spots for "Steel & Glass, "Scared", and "What You Got". Interestingly, I appreciate the final version more now after finally hearing the early working version of "What You Got" found on "Acoustic".
Another "thank you Yoko" for preserving those raw versions on that album and making 'em availble. :wink:
adorshki,
One of my favorite "poems" is by Yoko from her book Grapefruit. I forget what its called (I gave Grapefruit to one of my sisters), but the lines were something like.... Use your blood to paint. Paint until you faint. Paint until you die.
Very cool.
BUT I think John's songs during his separation was the best of his solo career. The Mind Games LP, "I'm the greatest", Walls and Bridges LP. His collaborations Elton and Bowie were just OK, but at least it seemed like he was working at being a musician and being real, and not focussing on publicity stunts.
I knew others would disagree, but that's my take. Its nothing per se against Yoko, its just that I really like his music during his separation.
Hope I didn't offend.
One of my favorite "poems" is by Yoko from her book Grapefruit. I forget what its called (I gave Grapefruit to one of my sisters), but the lines were something like.... Use your blood to paint. Paint until you faint. Paint until you die.
Very cool.
BUT I think John's songs during his separation was the best of his solo career. The Mind Games LP, "I'm the greatest", Walls and Bridges LP. His collaborations Elton and Bowie were just OK, but at least it seemed like he was working at being a musician and being real, and not focussing on publicity stunts.
I knew others would disagree, but that's my take. Its nothing per se against Yoko, its just that I really like his music during his separation.
Hope I didn't offend.
NEONMOONY
Member
John was a musical icon by that point and could make enough money to live as he wanted. He could undoubtedly have made more money post Beatles than he did but I think he chose not to chase after money as much. He was focused on his personal life and all that music (with and without Yoko)was a reflection of that personal life.
No apology necessary, jmac - I love the "lost weekend" music, too - don't forget the "Rock and Roll" album.
And the very last thing he did before he got back to Yoko was play live with Elton John at MSG. He did "Lucy", "Whatever Gets You..." and "I Saw Her Standing there" with Elton's band. You can get those songs on bootlegs and "legal" releases - great stuff!
After the show, Yoko was waiting for him, thanks to Elton's invitation, and they were no longer apart after that. A little trivia - because of that, Elton is Sean's godfather!
walrus
And the very last thing he did before he got back to Yoko was play live with Elton John at MSG. He did "Lucy", "Whatever Gets You..." and "I Saw Her Standing there" with Elton's band. You can get those songs on bootlegs and "legal" releases - great stuff!
After the show, Yoko was waiting for him, thanks to Elton's invitation, and they were no longer apart after that. A little trivia - because of that, Elton is Sean's godfather!
walrus