This video shows what's under a MIC Guild bridge
We really need an answer to this....
- Thread starter chazmo
- Start date
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Hoo boy. That is not good news. Thanks for finding that, schoolie. Whatever.... talk about poor decisions.
adorshki
Reverential Member
One other thing that occurred to me and possibly the most likely reason for the bridge coming off:
Improper/inadequate surface prep. Lots of opportunity for surface contamination to occur in a shop and it can look perfectly clean when actually it's not. Any oily type residue could be invisible to the naked eye.
I don't think there's any surface prep going on here. Like I said, it's a bad news story.
adorshki
Reverential Member
If they weren't prepping (cleaning) the surface properly I think we'd be seeing lot more of this problem than we have. And I could see that as a step that might get rushed and maybe even overlooked sometimes.
It just seems a lot more likely than a bad batch of glue or something environmentally causing the glue to give as I originally suspected.
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
I don't know what to think, and I'm tempted to say "what did you expect?".
It's a Jumbo 12-string that around five, six hundred street. I can't really grasp how the Chinese factory, CMG, the shipping company and the retailer all make a percentage on it, I hardly understand how you can build something like this for this kind of money.
I think the big mistake is putting "Guild" on the headstock of something like this. They used to be Madeiras.
Al, I started this thread having just seen a very obvious case of no prep and gluing straight to the finish.
adorshki
Reverential Member
I don't recall anybody saying lack of prep was responsible for the failure prior to this. All we saw was a failure and I'm simply offering a potential reason for it. We don't KNOW lack of prep was the problem yet. I'm only saying I think it was the most likely cause.
It could be that the bridge is adhering to the finish fine, but the finish isn't adhering very well to the wood.
GGJaguar
Reverential Member
Guild D-140CE Acoustic Electric - Sunburst (12210-MO) | eBay
The bridge pulled off the top of this guitar and will need to be repaired or replaced. Scratches and dings throughout. Electronics not working. This guitar is in as-is condition, and may have various imperfections such as light surface scratches, dings, or finish cracks.
www.ebay.com
GGJaguar
Reverential Member
And another.
Guild D-140CE Acoustic Electric *SHELL ONLY* - Sunburst (12238-MO) | eBay
This guitar is in as-is condition, and may have various imperfections such as light surface scratches, dings, or finish cracks. Perfect for projects or partscaster builds. This item is sold as-is.
www.ebay.com
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
"made to be played" ....as a hand drum
The only question left open to me is whether or not they were doing this unprepped gluing prior to the CMG Westerly series (i.e., pre-2015). I find it honestly hard to believe that Tim Shaw would've allowed this back when the GADs made the change to the "100" series. But then again, we're seeing what we're seeing here. Sigh.
Other than that glimmer of hope for the pre-Westerly-Series, I gotta' say that I am really, disgustingly, throw-up-in-my-mouth disappointed. Walter is right... "What should I have expected?" The answer is "better than this!... FAR better than this!"
Other than that glimmer of hope for the pre-Westerly-Series, I gotta' say that I am really, disgustingly, throw-up-in-my-mouth disappointed. Walter is right... "What should I have expected?" The answer is "better than this!... FAR better than this!"
adorshki
Reverential Member
Pic shows intact finish with glue residue:
From this thread:
https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/westerly-collection-qc.221041/#post-2148907
We're seeing 2 types of failures in these threads: One where the glue doesn't maintain a bond with the finish, and one where the finish doesn't maintain the bond with the wood.
Contamination of the bare wood can cause failure of finish bond to the wood, and contamination of finish surface can cause glue bond to fail. Contamination of the bridge's glue surface can cause glue bond to fail as well.
@chazmo : That's the failure I was talking about, that we don't now yet if lack of surface prep caused the failure at least I don't know enough to make that call. When I said that I thought you'd linked the "Westerly Collection QC" thread. I only saw just now you linked that "D-212" thread that was embedded in it. It might have caused some confusion between us.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2009
- Messages
- 23,111
- Reaction score
- 18,773
- Location
- NJ (The nice part)
- Guild Total
- 112
Well, that's the point, schoolie.
I think there’s a fundamental factor at play here that has nothing to do with Asian manufacture.
These guitars are made en masse to meet a price point. Of course they’re made cheaply - because they’re designed to be cheap. If they made it “the right way” then it would take longer and the price would go up and then some other company would eat their lunch making cheap guitars.
When it comes to things like guitars there are only so many ways to save money making them. They are not “made to be played” (I hate that slogan); they are made to be sold, and they are made such that the majority of them survive longer than the average buyer’s attention span. Arguably they should be made to last out the warranty period, and for many cheap products with lifetime warranties, made with such a high profit margin that so long as more then a slight majority don’t get returned it’s all good.
Whether or not these guitars should say Guild on them is a different discussion. IMO the answer to that has always been “no”.
TL;DR: Cheap guitars are made cheaply.
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
I think we're on the same page, GAD, Walter, mostly... Although I have to say that I disagree a bit that it has nothing to do with Asian manufacture... I.e., no one should be affixing bridges to the finished surface. Cheap guitars are not necessarily made cheaply.
I guess my point is that we've kowtowed to the Asian-built Guilds, talking them up as if they're something special, and then we find out this crap. Sorry, it really deflates me to see this. Any/all respect for the Asian-built Guilds just went out the window for me, as I find this whole matter indefensible.
Having said all that, the question of Guild on the headstock... We're on the same page of course... But, that is water that's way under the bridge.
Anyway, enough said as far as I'm concerned. I really appreciate that folks helped me/us determine the truth, ugly as it is.