Guild Finish at Cordoba

[West R Lee]

Still here Charlie. They haven't kicked me out yet......Lord knows I've tried!

West : )

 

[chazmo]

Not a chance, Jim.

Since Fender'll be out of the picture, Jim, could you see yourself buying a Cordoba-built Guild down the road? I'm just curious if the Westerly bias is permanent for you?

Oh, and I was wondering if you ever got to play any of the New Hartford-built guitars... If so, did you like 'em?

 

[West R Lee]

First of all, I've never had anything against Fender per se. I think Leo Fender was a hero. With me, it was always about the Guild brand. I think the first 5-6 years, Fender did the Guild brand proud. I've always believed mid 90's-01" guitars were the best Guild ever built, under Fender....it's why I own so many of them. So it's not an anti Fender thing. But from that point on, it was as if Fender was clueless. I never saw a sense of direction with the brand I loved so much. I watched my brand wander aimlessly for so many years. I will never understand why Fender pulled Guild out of Westerly, and I'd venture a guess that even you New Hartford folks are wondering what the hell happened? So it not as much an anti Fender thing as a pro Guild thing. But I do think that Fender has mismanaged my brand the past 13 years.

Yes sir, I've played a couple of N.H. guitars, and I've liked them. Obviously nowhere near the experience with them as the Westerlys, but I've liked what I've seen and played. As far as buying a Cordoba Guild......I'll be honest with you. As with the N.H. guitars, I felt, and still feel the jury is out.......we'll see how they pan out. It will be the same with Cordoba built Guilds. This issue of finish is a big issue for me........I don't personally care for poly finishes on guitars, but I won't say never. If people here buy them, and if they're blown away by them, who knows........I could end up with one. We'll just have to see.

But the finish issue is very big to me. I'm a pretty traditional guy, and lacquer finish is pretty traditional on an acoustic to me. I also personally don't buy the sonic qualities of poly being equal to nitro. But I guess we'll just have to see what they do in California. Cordoba may build the greatest acoustic Guild guitars in the world in the end....who knows?

I guess the thing that distresses me most is that I'm afraid Hans may never finish Volume II......they keep adding new chapters for him to have to write about.

West

Not a chance, Jim.

Since Fender'll be out of the picture, Jim, could you see yourself buying a Cordoba-built Guild down the road? I'm just curious if the Westerly bias is permanent for you?

Oh, and I was wondering if you ever got to play any of the New Hartford-built guitars... If so, did you like 'em?

 

[AZLiberty]

The Cordoba factory is literally within walking distance of the Larrivee facility. Jean pretty much pioneered the use of thin UV cured poly finishes with Taylor following closely behind. The Larrivees have always been very generous with helping out other instrument makers.

If the Cordoba folks do end up using UV cured poly they can walk down the street if they have any issues.

 

[SFIV1967]

Taylor themselves openly acknowledge their newer, thinner 800 series finish as being superior to that which has gone before.

Christopher: Not sure you saw my post at the beginning of this thread: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...h-at-Cordoba&p=1641466&viewfull=1#post1641466
It has the link to that detailed description of the new finish in Wood & Steel. (as well as all other features they changed on the 800 series).
Ralf

 

[chazmo]

Fair enough, Jim!!!

Stay well, and stay away from those sad songs!

 

[SFIV1967]

I guess the thing that distresses me most is that I'm afraid Hans may never finish Volume II......they keep adding new chapters for him to have to write about.

I thought Hans had mentioned in the past that he will not talk about New Hartford in Volume II, maybe not even Tacoma. I thought end of Westerly was the end for Volume II? And there would be always room for Volume III! But don't know what the issue with Volume II is. The 2003 Guild catalog on page 43 showed: "The revised version, taking the history up to the present, will be available sometime in 2003"! That would have been 11 years ago! I am so looking forward to that book! I would hope Hans would rather bring out a Volume II and continue in a Volume III...
Ralf

 

[geoguy]

To the best of my knowledge, there are at least three options here, two of which may be nick-named "poly".

So, this is really a question of nitro vs UV-cured polyester vs. polyurethane. My understanding is that the UV-cured polyester can be sprayed quite thin. Isn't that what Taylor uses on their guitars?

 

[West R Lee]

I hadn't heard that Ralf. I do know Volume II exists, maybe not in finished form, but I've had the pleasure/honor of holding a rough draft in my hands. : ) As far as a Volume III, who knows what Hans has planned? But I do know there's a whole lot more work/expense involved than I had considered in getting Volume II out and I suspect that's why it's taken this long.

West

I thought Hans had mentioned in the past that he will not talk about New Hartford in Volume II, maybe not even Tacoma. I thought end of Westerly was the end for Volume II? And there would be always room for Volume III! But don't know what the issue with Volume II is. The 2003 Guild catalog on page 43 showed: "The revised version, taking the history up to the present, will be available sometime in 2003"! That would have been 11 years ago! I am so looking forward to that book! I would hope Hans would rather bring out a Volume II and continue in a Volume III...
Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

My understanding is that the UV-cured polyester can be sprayed quite thin. Isn't that what Taylor uses on their guitars?

Yes, both Taylor and Larrivee use this. But UV cured has nothing to do with thickness! Have a look at both links. However you will see in the Taylor link that the satin finish is made of a UV cured polyester base with a two-part (resin and hardener) polyurethane as top layer! So it's a combination. There are UV and catalyst curing polyurethanes and polyesters, and because each has its advantages and disadvantages as materials, they can also be used together. Note that Guild also used nitro lacquer top coats over polyester fill and build coats. This is quick and helps to avoid long term finish shrinkage into the pores of the wood. If a poly finish is applied correctly there should be absolutely no difference in sound between a nitro coated and a poly coated guitar. Forget about the thick poly on some Asian guitars. I don't know why the Newark St. models in some cases have such a thick polyurethane on them. Go to GC and try a 2014 (!) 800 model (so far only 800 models) of Taylor to see how thin a poly finish can be done.
Ralf

 

[Westerly Wood]

Yes, both Taylor and Larrivee use this. But UV cured has nothing to do with thickness! Have a look at both links. However you will see in the Taylor link that the satin finish is made of a UV cured polyester base with a two-part (resin and hardener) polyurethane as top layer! So it's a combination. There are UV and catalyst curing polyurethanes and polyesters, and because each has its advantages and disadvantages as materials, they can also be used together. Note that Guild also used nitro lacquer top coats over polyester fill and build coats. This is quick and helps to avoid long term finish shrinkage into the pores of the wood. If a poly finish is applied correctly there should be absolutely no difference in sound between a nitro coated and a poly coated guitar. Forget about the thick poly on some Asian guitars. I don't know why the Newark St. models in some cases have such a thick polyurethane on them. Go to GC and try a 2014 (!) 800 model (so far only 800 models) of Taylor to see how thin a poly finish can be done.
Ralf

well, i always been a fan of the Taylor grand concert guitar. I had a 712 and would love an 812 one day. good to hear about their finish changes.

 

[adorshki]

Well, anytime you improve on something, it's not to say the previous product was inferior, just that you now have something better. But I guess in a way, yes, you are saying your previous product is now inferior, but only in comparison to your new product.

This is only ever actually true, by the way, in the case of fruit trees.
:apple:

 

[fronobulax]

But I do know there's a whole lot more work/expense involved than I had considered in getting Volume II out and I suspect that's why it's taken this long.

West

So maybe we get Hans to float a Kickstarter project so he can finish and publish Volume II?

Like someone else I also though I saw comments from Hans that projected Volume II ending with the closing of Westerly.

 

[Default]

In!!!!!

 

[West R Lee]

The last Arlington I attended, we had a good chat about what it took to publish. I was surprised at the difficulty. Sounds easy.....write a book and publish it, but there's more to it than that. Especially with the photography he publishes. There may have also been issues with the minimum number of books printed and issues like that, something along those lines, that's been a while.

West

So maybe we get Hans to float a Kickstarter project so he can finish and publish Volume II?

Like someone else I also though I saw comments from Hans that projected Volume II ending with the closing of Westerly.

 

[West R Lee]

In response to an email I sent Cordoba regarding Guild finish:

Hi Jim,



Thanks for writing to us! As you can imagine, we have been receiving a lot of questions regarding the specifics of Guild’s future. At this time, it’s still a bit too early to comment on the exact finishes that will be used; I don’t believe Ren has decided yet. We will continue to share information as the acquisition is completed. We appreciate your feedback and support, and we hope you’re as excited as we are for the next era of Guild guitars!



Best regards,

KIM WHITE

NATIONAL ACCOUNTS SALES & MARKETING

Cordoba Music Group

1455 19th St. Santa Monica, CA 90404

P 310-857-1705 | F 310-857-1690

Cordoba Guitars | Savarez | HumiCase

So.....we'll see. Sure sounds like Mr. Ferguson is the man.

West