Guild Finish at Cordoba

Walter Broes

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Shellac is as labour intensive as Nitro, or more. Beautiful finish, but not nearly as durable as any kind of lacquer. It basically goes dull when you so much as sweat on it. Great sealer though, and/or "barrier coat" between two types of finish.

I don't know if Nitro sounds better than other finishes, but it sure does look great, wears beautifully, and can be touched up and repaired. I like it. Nasty stuff though, I've finished two guitars in it, and let me tell you...it's poison!
 

steamfurnace

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While I have been a bit of a traditionlist for most of my acoustics; dove-tail joints, ebony or rosewood fretboards, nitro finish, etc., I personally wouldn't have a problem with a poly finish, if it is applied thinly enough. My Taylor 414ce looks just fine in poly, and the color of the top has even aged nicely since 1999. It doesn't look or feel like any of the plastic-coated Pac-Rim guitars that you see being sold.
 

adorshki

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Sandy, I remember the discussion here, probably not long after I joined LTG in '05, in which it was discussed that Corona wouldn't/couldn't spray nitro. Now that conversation was here on the forum, but never substantiated, so I can't say for sure if they did, or if they didn't. Just too long ago. I just remember reading that here.
Jim, one thing you gotta remember about current Cordoba seel strings, they're Chinese-built like GAD's, and I've never seen a modern Chinese guitar with NCL lacquer. (Doesn't mean they don't exist, I've just never heard of one yet. Probably incompatible with the speed of production model needed by those makers, I'm guessing.)
I remember later mentions about nitro and Corona as well, but my memory has it that it was never "proven" that's why Fender took Guild out of CA, and it never really seemed like enough of a reason all by itself anyway.
Seeing that article a couple of years back that mentioned the brand new state of the art finishing booth built specifically for Guild in Corona finally put paid to the qeustion, in my mind at least.
Granted it still leaves open the question of whether constant tightening of the allowable emissions standards and cost of compliance certfication proved burdensome for Fender to meet, and contributed to their exit motives.
Nitro CAN be sprayed in CA, it just requires some pretty expensive compliance measures.
I'd hope that Sandy's note that the compliance levels required at New Hartford are still very similar to California's and that possibly the equipment could be transferred happens, or who knows, maybe the old booth is still lying unused in Corona and could be bought and updated if needed right from Fender in CA?
My personal feelings about nitro are that I'm a traditionalist and I'm in that school that believes it improves with age due to drying out and becoming more resonant, but even if that turns out to be untrue, the real bottom line advantage it still has over the others is spot repairability.
Even the guy who wrote the article Joe linked to concedes that in his very last sentence.
"Durability" is kind of counterproductive if the only way to fix the scratch is to repaint the whole car....
 
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Walter Broes

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JIm, one thing you gotta remember about current Cordoba seel strings, they're Chinese-built like GADs', and I've never seen a modern Chinese guitar with NCL lacquer. Probably incompatible with the speed of production model needed by those makers.
Recording King and Eastman have MIC lacquer-finished guitars. I have a RK slope shoulder dread, and it's nitro alright - my repair guy took care of a little ...ahem..."accident" I had with it, and the nitro melted right into what was on it from the factory.
 

adorshki

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Recording King and Eastman have MIC lacquer-finished guitars. I have a RK slope shoulder dread, and it's nitro alright - my repair guy took care of a little ...ahem..."accident" I had with it, and the nitro melted right into what was on it from the factory.

You must have been posting while I was editing, because added a note when I realized that just 'cause I was unaware of Chinese-made lacquer finishes didn't mean they weren't being made.
MORE importantly, thanks for "corroborating" the point about repairability!
Also makes me wonder if the finish is some small part of why those two brands seem to be held in particular esteem ?
 

twocorgis

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You must have been posting while I was editing, because added a note when I realized that just 'cause I was unaware of Chinese-made lacquer finishes didn't mean they weren't being made.
MORE importantly, thanks for "corroborating" the point about repairability!
Also makes me wonder if the finish is some small part of why those two brands seem to be held in particular esteem ?

I was about to chime in on this too, Al. I just sold a MIC Loar mandolin that has a NCL finish. No worries in China about onerous air quality standards!

smog.jpg
 
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Walter Broes

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Also makes me wonder if the finish is some small part of why those two brands seem to be held in particular esteem ?
I don't know, maybe. I think it's the price vs the amount of solid wood you get. Eastmans are nice - the fret jobs could be better, but they build nice guitars. RK - after some work, my RK dread sounds pretty good and plays well, but it needed more work than it should have. Very sloppy build, loose frets, loose bridge, etc....
 

Westerly Wood

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While I have been a bit of a traditionlist for most of my acoustics; dove-tail joints, ebony or rosewood fretboards, nitro finish, etc., I personally wouldn't have a problem with a poly finish, if it is applied thinly enough. My Taylor 414ce looks just fine in poly, and the color of the top has even aged nicely since 1999. It doesn't look or feel like any of the plastic-coated Pac-Rim guitars that you see being sold.

I have had Taylor's too. No complaints about their poly, but the problem I had is the overall no soul tone. Guilds don't have that problem. That being said, one guitar I would like to have back is my '96 712. That was awesome.
 
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SFIV1967

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I have had Taylor's too. No complaints about their poly, but the problem I had is the overall no soul tone.
Check out their new Any Powers designed 800 series with that super thin poly, sounds at least great from the article I posted before.

Regarding Nitro usage in Asia: The one country I know where you cannot use nitro due to legal regulations is South Korea, hence also the Newark St. models use polyurethane.

Ralf
 

twocorgis

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Check out their new Any Powers designed 800 series with that super thin poly, sounds at least great from the article I posted before.

Regarding Nitro usage in Asia: The one country I know where you cannot use nitro due to legal regulations is South Korea, hence also the Newark St. models use polyurethane.

Ralf

I played a 2014 816ce recently (at GC, no less), and it was a truly outstanding guitar. I don't usually like Taylors, and I couldn't believe I was playing one. It really was that good, thin poly finish and all.
 

West R Lee

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Al, I didn't mean to imply that Guild left Corona because of difficulty using nitro, only that I remember it being a problem there.....or at least, discussed as a problem experienced in Corona here at LTG. And I didn't realize the Cordoba D models were Chinese......thanks for the clarification.

West
 

SFIV1967

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Looks like all four are poly finished.
Yes, but I believe the fourth one is not made in USA.

By the way, in 2004 somebody from Fender talked at FDP about the Corona spray booth: "...the overspray is collected and disposed of in a proper hazardous waste facility. The overspray lands in a waterfall at the back of the booth. The water and solid materials are then routed to a centrafuge where the solids are seperated into a sludge collection tank and then disposed of according to law and standards. The water can be reused for a certain period of time, and then when it is spent, we dispose of it appropriately too. Also, the paint fumes are sucked up into an air filtration system, a giant multi million dollar filter, so to speak, and then after the air is scrubbed of the hazardous toxins, it is expelled back into the lovely Corona atomosphere. Fact: The air leaving our building is actually cleaner than it was when it came in. This is no simple or inexpensive system. It not only meets, but exceeds State and Federal air quality standards. As Morgan says, we do more than we have to. Just because we may be able to get away with less, doesn't mean we are going to."

Ralf
 

West R Lee

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Fascinating Ralf.......thanks. And old "Morgan Ringwald" there says they spray nitro in Corona.......that post was Jan. 2, 2004......about the fourth post down.

West

Yes, but I believe the fourth one is not made in USA.

By the way, in 2004 somebody from Fender talked at FDP about the Corona spray booth: "...the overspray is collected and disposed of in a proper hazardous waste facility. The overspray lands in a waterfall at the back of the booth. The water and solid materials are then routed to a centrafuge where the solids are seperated into a sludge collection tank and then disposed of according to law and standards. The water can be reused for a certain period of time, and then when it is spent, we dispose of it appropriately too. Also, the paint fumes are sucked up into an air filtration system, a giant multi million dollar filter, so to speak, and then after the air is scrubbed of the hazardous toxins, it is expelled back into the lovely Corona atomosphere. Fact: The air leaving our building is actually cleaner than it was when it came in. This is no simple or inexpensive system. It not only meets, but exceeds State and Federal air quality standards. As Morgan says, we do more than we have to. Just because we may be able to get away with less, doesn't mean we are going to."

Ralf
 
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West R Lee

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Again, thank you Ralf. I am still wondering if the cost of spraying nitro was prohibitive in California. Obviously Fender, did and does nitro spray there, but am still wondering if it was a factor in Fender's decision to move Guild to Washington. Now Al, don't put words in my mouth ; ) Not the ONLY factor, but a factor. Obviously, they did it, but was the cost so great, they decided not to...............so along with other contributing factors, decided to move Guild? There obviously were reasons they moved Guild from Corona.

And the question remains.....I wonder what Cordoba will finish Guild guitars with?

West

 
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