Anyone got Ren's contact info? I'll bet you he could answer this question in a heartbeat.
Guild Finish at Cordoba
- Thread starter West R Lee
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Westerly Wood
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My long gone 1996 Taylor 712, this is one of the ones I wish I never let go: http://youtu.be/0hjF4qbPWME
killdeer43
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Nice playing, nice guitar, cute-as-the-dickens little girl.
*Might have used this one to start a different thread rather than tag onto one about nitro vs. poly.....just sayin'. :apple:
Joe
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sorry Joe, but i came down kind of hard on if Guild goes poly in Cordoba and I wanted to back track to days when I played taylor polys guitars. That clip is 2008, Rae, little girl in video, just rolls her eyes at me nowadays
killdeer43
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Not necessary, I just thought you might showcase your talent and your ex-Taylor (not to mention Rae) in a thread that's more open for you and focuses on your main point. :apple:
Again, just sayin',
Joe
I've got both Guilds and Taylors.....
Both types of finishes have pros and cons. Nitro might be more easily repairable, but only if you can find someone to take on the task and do it right. If you have to ship out of state to get it fixed (add shipping and insurance cost), the repairability of nitro sometimes becomes moot.
Had a chance to A vs B my Taylor 555s (pre NT necks) to some older Westerly 212XLs a few years ago. The Westerlys did not sound significantly better than the Taylors, nor was the build quality significantly better than my Taylors. As much as I wanted those Guild 212XLs, I decided to keep the Taylor 555s. When I originally bought the 555s, there were no 212XLs to be found in my neck of the woods.
Bottom line to me is that the Taylors with the poly finish are not inferior sounding instruments, just a different flavor that many have come to enjoy in the worldwide guitar community.
Tommy
Both types of finishes have pros and cons. Nitro might be more easily repairable, but only if you can find someone to take on the task and do it right. If you have to ship out of state to get it fixed (add shipping and insurance cost), the repairability of nitro sometimes becomes moot.
Had a chance to A vs B my Taylor 555s (pre NT necks) to some older Westerly 212XLs a few years ago. The Westerlys did not sound significantly better than the Taylors, nor was the build quality significantly better than my Taylors. As much as I wanted those Guild 212XLs, I decided to keep the Taylor 555s. When I originally bought the 555s, there were no 212XLs to be found in my neck of the woods.
Bottom line to me is that the Taylors with the poly finish are not inferior sounding instruments, just a different flavor that many have come to enjoy in the worldwide guitar community.
Tommy
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I have heard nothing but good things about the 500 series Taylors. Again, I have owned 4 Taylors in my past. One of which I wish I still had. I guess it is just in the ear of the beholder. Taylor necks are hard to argue against, they offer fantastic playability. I just wish the tone was more vintage to my ears is all. But that one element was enough for me to move on to other pastures, not greener, but well, greener for me....
Yeah, my Taylor 555 had a more a livelier / brighter tone. I guess depending on the type of music you are playing, the livelier / brighter tone can sometimes work against you.
Tommy
adorshki
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Given that they're still using it (NCL) on American Vintage Strats, I now seriously doubt that it had much weight in that decision at all.
Until Ralf posted those links, I had no clue "the booth" was such a complex and expensive piece of engineering.
In fact now I see it as something that would tend to make 'em want to keep Guild in Corona, since they were gonna be using it anyway and that would help recover the investment cost, but other costs must have been significantly enough lower to justify the disruption of relocating to Tacoma.
I'm thinking lower labor and raw materials (no shipping costs for spruce tops?) and maybe making the overall efficiency of Tacoma get better (more guitars from the same basic facilities overhead), and maybe more room to expand?
BUT, the conversation now has me wondering if the decision to install the new technology in Corona and to pull out of Westerly were much more closely related than we ever suspected?
Both decisions were obviously being weighed at the same time and in fact I recall one article that implied that the new spray booth was installed specifically for the Guild acoustics that were going to built in Corona. But that coulda been marketing hype.
I'm reminded of a couple of vague references we've seen to "unjustifiable costs to upgrade the facilities in Westerly", or words to that effect.
A million dollar spray booth sure seems to fit the bill (amongst others I'm sure), and in Corona it was gonna be used on all those Fender electrics, anyway, right?
Fender might have seen the decisions as mutually supportive, "synergistic", from a manufacturing cost point of view.
Sooooo...if Cordoba's actively spraying "poly" already, to me the question is, how easy would it be to use the existing equipment for nitro? I frankly don't have a clue about what's involved, but I'm guessing you either have to flush lines/reservoirs/ spray heads every time you wanna change finishes, or else piggyback a dedicated NCL reservoir/line/ spray head on the existing compressor. And possibly tweak the filtration system for the different chemicals.
Has Chazmo found Ren's number yet?
:biggrin-new:
Oh, PS, sorry 'bout puttin' words in your mouth, chief, I musta misinterpreted your original post about previous discussions. It sounded like "the move from Corona" had been blamed on one reason. (Not neccessarily by you, but just that previous discussions had blamed it on the "finishing issues" specifically).
West R Lee
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I'd read, and I assumed that nitro spray was a factor in that move Al.........not the only reason, but a factor.
West
West
adorshki
Reverential Member
So I can't talk you into changing your mind?'
:laughing:
mario1956
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I would agree that the poly finish does look almost too shiny. I have a Blueridge BR260 2004 model that is poly and it still looks new. There is no damage from body oils and sweat that eventually affects nitro fininshes. I have owned the guitar 10 years and can say that the sound has greatly improved despite the polyester. So from my experience the whole sound thing is moot. The finish is thin enough that you can see the grain of the top and the back/sides so with out taking any measurements I would say the finish appears no thicker that the nitro guitars I have.
Having both finishes the "feel" of the neck and body is, well, sort of plasticky. The neck has been deglossed and now feels more what I would expect.
Also if any repairs had to be made to the guitar poly finishes are almost impossible to blend so the repaired area would be more likely to be visible whereas the nitro finish can be blended easily.
If Guild finishes became some form of poly mix it wouldn't prevent me from buying one.
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An addendum to the "Taylor Poly" sub-discussion (whether there is a tone-related factor in the finish material, or not)...
Taylor themselves openly acknowledge their newer, thinner 800 series finish as being superior to that which has gone before (from their site):
"..Taylor has reconceived its flagship rosewood/spruce 800 Series, infusing it with a sweeping array of tone-enhancing refinements. Virtually every element of the guitar’s material construction was optimized: bracing, wood thicknesses, glues, finish, strings and acoustic electronics..."
(Note: What, exactly, does this admission declare regarding the company's previous offerings? Are they, somehow, inferior?)
I own several high-end Taylors. They are all well-balanced, are a joy to play, yet sound quite deficient until amplified, where they come alive (as though they were intentionally designed to be plugged in).
I recently spent time with a Taylor 816ce and it was the best-sounding Taylor, acoustically speaking, I have ever played. Incidentally, I do not currently own an 800 series.
Taylor themselves openly acknowledge their newer, thinner 800 series finish as being superior to that which has gone before (from their site):
"..Taylor has reconceived its flagship rosewood/spruce 800 Series, infusing it with a sweeping array of tone-enhancing refinements. Virtually every element of the guitar’s material construction was optimized: bracing, wood thicknesses, glues, finish, strings and acoustic electronics..."
(Note: What, exactly, does this admission declare regarding the company's previous offerings? Are they, somehow, inferior?)
I own several high-end Taylors. They are all well-balanced, are a joy to play, yet sound quite deficient until amplified, where they come alive (as though they were intentionally designed to be plugged in).
I recently spent time with a Taylor 816ce and it was the best-sounding Taylor, acoustically speaking, I have ever played. Incidentally, I do not currently own an 800 series.
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West R Lee
Venerated Member
Hey, I've had my mind changed a couple of times in this thread. : ) Still prefer nitro though.
West
West
adorshki
Reverential Member
Naaahhh...It's just like cars, ya gotta keep showing the incremental product improvements to entice people to step up for a new one.
Volkswagen even made a virtue out of keeping the changes invisble for a while there, remember?
I mean, aside from the styling hype, how many of us really want to pay for a new car when the old one's probably still workin' just fine? :laughing:
Your whole post was even-handed and well said, Mario. :wink:
We really oughta just bury it and agree to agree now, then.
:laughing:
West R Lee
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Only if you agree with me Al! : )
West
West
Same here Christopher. I've now played a 2014 814ce and 816ce that were both outstanding. I could easily see owning either of them.
jcwu
Senior Member
Well, anytime you improve on something, it's not to say the previous product was inferior, just that you now have something better. But I guess in a way, yes, you are saying your previous product is now inferior, but only in comparison to your new product.
killdeer43
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So I guess this all goes to say that they don't make 'em like they used to....? :numbness:
Joe
Joe
There's the Jim we all know and love!