New GSR T-500

chazmo

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Can I ask a wicked stupid question? Why would a solid archtop/back need to be carved? Couldn't it be heated/steamed/pressed, just like they do with the laminate process, just done with a sheet of solid wood. Will it not take the shape of a mould?

Like I said, ignorant question, but I'm curious. Clearly, if it has to be carved, then it has to start from a pretty thick piece of wood.
 

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Chazmo said:
Can I ask a wicked stupid question? Why would a solid archtop/back need to be carved? Couldn't it be heated/steamed/pressed, just like they do with the laminate process, just done with a sheet of solid wood. Will it not take the shape of a mould?

Like I said, ignorant question, but I'm curious. Clearly, if it has to be carved, then it has to start from a pretty thick piece of wood.

Take the little ballsawood glider wing you played with as a kid and flex it with the grain and against the grain. Wet or dry. This will explain a lot without delving into the dynamics of wood grain and it's reaction to movement and pressure from different directions.
 

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Chazmo said:
Can I ask a wicked stupid question? Why would a solid archtop/back need to be carved? Couldn't it be heated/steamed/pressed, just like they do with the laminate process, just done with a sheet of solid wood. Will it not take the shape of a mould?

Like I said, ignorant question, but I'm curious. Clearly, if it has to be carved, then it has to start from a pretty thick piece of wood.

That's correct, you would start with a an inch or two hunk of wood. When you carve it by hand, you can tap tune it.
Excerpt from Bob Benedetto interview http://members.shaw.ca/strings/benedetto.htm

Can you balance the guitar's voice through tap tuning?

BENEDETTO If there's any magic and romance Involved in
making archtop guitars, this is it. Nothing excites me like
carving and tuning guitar tops and backs. Tap tuning is the
centuries-old violin-making technique of tapping the wood
before and while it's being carved, which is a very intuitive
process.

Briefly, it begins with tapping rough boards, resting
on the fingertips, that will be planed to tops and backs,
memorizing the tone produced. As the top and back are progressively
carved, they are continuously tapped to monitor this tone, which
drops dramatically in pitch. Carving the f-holes drops the pitch even
more. Gluing the bracing in causes the pitch to rise, and as the
braces are shaved, it again lowers. It's difficult to explain this
quickly, but in the hands of a good player, we want the top and
back graduated so that tha back will vibrate freely in sympathy
with the top, creating a well-balanced voice that improves as the
guitar ages. It is magical, isn't it?
 
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I would say it's skill, art and a little magic too.
So what are the body dimensions of the T-500?
Thanks John
 

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You folks on the LMG next week will get to view the original press that is used to press the F-50 and F-412 backs. It's the only one Guild has ever used I believe. Ask Darin to find out for sure. It's been moved from factory to factory along Guilds history.
 

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powerwagonjohn said:
I bought a new Gibson L-4CES in 2010 for $3400.00 It has a solid carved spruce top and a solid carved mahogany back and solid mahogany sides. It is a sweet guitar and I got it at a great price. I have seen used ones for less than 3000.00.
Thanks John
Musician's Friend, $5,799

Bing, they still have the D-25 press, but they don't want to make D-25s for some reason. :)
 

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powerwagonjohn said:
I would say it's skill, art and a little magic too.
So what are the body dimensions of the T-500?
Thanks John

I haven't measured the ones here and we have not received a spec sheet yet.
 

Bing k

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Default said:
powerwagonjohn said:
I bought a new Gibson L-4CES in 2010 for $3400.00 It has a solid carved spruce top and a solid carved mahogany back and solid mahogany sides. It is a sweet guitar and I got it at a great price. I have seen used ones for less than 3000.00.
Thanks John
Musician's Friend, $5,799

Bing, they still have the D-25 press, but they don't want to make D-25s for some reason. :)

I have a hunch that down the road that D-25 press may get used.
 

chazmo

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Bing k said:
Chazmo said:
Can I ask a wicked stupid question? Why would a solid archtop/back need to be carved? Couldn't it be heated/steamed/pressed, just like they do with the laminate process, just done with a sheet of solid wood. Will it not take the shape of a mould?

Like I said, ignorant question, but I'm curious. Clearly, if it has to be carved, then it has to start from a pretty thick piece of wood.

Take the little ballsawood glider wing you played with as a kid and flex it with the grain and against the grain. Wet or dry. This will explain a lot without delving into the dynamics of wood grain and it's reaction to movement and pressure from different directions.
That's fair enough, Bing. I think you're saying that as soon as you start flexing it along the axis of the grain, it's going to split. I know when they bend solid wood sides, it's all perpendicular to the grain.

OK, my stupidity is over. :)
 

Bing k

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Chazmo said:
Bing k said:
Chazmo said:
Can I ask a wicked stupid question? Why would a solid archtop/back need to be carved? Couldn't it be heated/steamed/pressed, just like they do with the laminate process, just done with a sheet of solid wood. Will it not take the shape of a mould?

Like I said, ignorant question, but I'm curious. Clearly, if it has to be carved, then it has to start from a pretty thick piece of wood.

Take the little ballsawood glider wing you played with as a kid and flex it with the grain and against the grain. Wet or dry. This will explain a lot without delving into the dynamics of wood grain and it's reaction to movement and pressure from different directions.
That's fair enough, Bing. I think you're saying that as soon as you start flexing it along the axis of the grain, it's going to split. I know when they bend solid wood sides, it's all perpendicular to the grain.

OK, my stupidity is over. :)

Good question really, nothing stupid about it. :)
All part of learning about the process
 

charliea

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Default said:
powerwagonjohn said:
I bought a new Gibson L-4CES in 2010 for $3400.00 It has a solid carved spruce top and a solid carved mahogany back and solid mahogany sides. It is a sweet guitar and I got it at a great price. I have seen used ones for less than 3000.00.
Thanks John
Musician's Friend, $5,799

Bing, they still have the D-25 press, but they don't want to make D-25s for some reason. :)

There's all kinds of trade-offs in life. Reading the specs, I notice the L-4CES has a one-piece neck. I can't imagine why they'd economize in that area. Go figure.
 

SFIV1967

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powerwagonjohn said:
Did they make a special mold just for 18-20 Starfires and a different mold for 25 T-500? I wouldn't think they would but I really don't know.
John, the bodies for the GSR Starfire were differently done, just look at the other threads for the GSR Starfire under "whitewood".
Ralf
 
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Ralf, are you sure that the bodies didn't come from the same source? I have not heard anything definitive yet but I am sure waiting on more background info on the production of both the Starfire VI and the T-500. Hopefully after everyone gets back.
Thanks John
 

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I wonder if there will be any of these around next spring when I am ready to buy one... probably not... :(
 

SFIV1967

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Boris_B said:
I wonder if there will be any of these around next spring when I am ready to buy one... probably not... :(
Looking at how quickly they sell I doubt...It's a limited run of 25 only after all. There might be a few new and different archtop models coming in future, but if you want a T-500 you would need to look for a financing option and buy now I would say.
Ralf
 

guildman63

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There are still a few Starfire VI's around, but I agree that you may want to try and work something out sooner rather than later as there appears to be much more interest in the T-500.
 
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