Acoustic Guitar Magazine Cover Story: Guild!

[jwsamuel]

To bring back into this discussion the AG Guiild article, I was very happy to see the publicity, no matter how incomplete the info may have been, because I think bringing attention to the brand is the right way to try to increase customer interest among serious enthusiasts, which may in turn soon allow retailers to hold the line on their prices.

I agree with you about the article. Here's something that happened to me today. I have a 2006 Guild D50. The string spacing on the nut is a little to narrow for me, so I have been meaning to replace the nut with one that has wider string spacing. I had to take my Bourgeois to a luthier today, so I thought I'd just take the D-50 with me and pay the luthier to put on a new nut.

When I pulled the Guild out, the luthier said he didn't even know Guild existed any more. He was surprised to hear that they were still being made and that they were being made in Tacoma. Fender has a lot of work to do, but they do have the resources to do it.

Jim

 

[guildzilla]

Cue Scarecrow...

Cue Music...

Sing: "If they only had a brain...."

 

[songsmith7]

Is this a discussion even worthy for this board?

http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ul ... 027274;p=3

A part of me thinks a great injustice has been done. Another part says that the ill-informed should remain so.

 

[Jeff]

Is this a discussion even worthy for this board?

http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ul ... 027274;p=3

.

Song,

Thanks for posting up the link seems you kicked up a little sand over there.

Interesting thread, many positive comments about the Westerly & Tacoma built Guilds.

Interesting as well, some the , "ahem", less biased critisism of Westerly Guilds.

 

[songsmith7]

Thanks, Jeff,

Fighting the good fight. Feel free to chime in on this topic, my brothers and sisters in Guild.

Overbuilt??

Don't get me started.

 

[Graham]

I'm thinking that Jay Pilzer is absolutely right about people trying to get Guilds at ridiculously low prices causing problems with the retail chain.

We all want our collections to grow and naturally we want to get them at a good "to us" price, but are we not undermining their value by doing so?

Like I mentioned before, I played several Taylors at the Arlington show up against several of the Tacoma Guilds and, for me, there was no contest. Funny though when I saw the prices of the Taylors at $2500+ and $3200+ I didn't give it a second thought because I wouldn't buy one yet when I saw the price of the new F-30 and F-40 at $1399 I thought I'd like to get it cheaper, even though it was, again to me, a better player than the Taylor, which would get close to it's asking price.

Should Fender not be taking a harder stand on their pricing?

I'm also wondering, even though I'm not done acquiring more guitars, if our ebay area has taken some of the knowledge out of the market??

The greed monger in me wants the prices to stay low until I'm done picking them up, whenever that is, then they can get to a value that, for me, resembles the competition.

 

[BluesDan]

Maybe related to this thread...maybe a stretch...I offer this information. Yesterday morning I was channel surfing and see Esteban on the Home Shopping Network hawking his "wares" as per usual. Seems he teamed up with General Motors and designed a "57 Chevy" inspired "limited edition" guitar (if you want to call it that). Included were strings, a strap, a 10 watt amplifier, and who knows what else, for the whopping price of $199.00. So, I left for training at the fire academy, when I got home I tuned back in to check on that little sales counter they have in the corner of the screen. They sold over 15,000 of these so called guitars. 15 THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Struck me like a freight train that there is such an obvious demand for cheap piece of sh%$ guitars while other quality instruments languish unsold.

 

[fungusyoung]

Should Fender not be taking a harder stand on their pricing?

I think they would love to, but how can they when they don't have even close to the same name recognition that Taylor, Gibson or even Martin does? Guild has a long way to go in this regard, and FMIC's support is still lacking in spite of tossing Guild a bone with the AGM article.

Going back to Westerly for a minute... there are obviously others out there that do not see the greatness of the RI era that many of us here do. So, maybe that has a bit to do with the bargain prices that we tend to find enjoy on Ebay, etc. I also think dealers have to be aware of what guitars are going for in the open market instead of pricing themselves out of it... as an example, when I see a nice D15 on Craigslist going for $425 (or best offer) vs. a dealer on Gbase selling one for over $700, it's sort of an easy decision which direction to lean in.

 

[JerryR]

Should Fender not be taking a harder stand on their pricing?

I think they would love to, but how can they when they don't have even close to the same name recognition that Taylor, Gibson or even Martin does? Guild has a long way to go in this regard, and FMIC's support is still lacking in spite of tossing Guild a bone with the AGM article.

Going back to Westerly for a minute... there are obviously others out there that do not see the greatness of the RI era that many of us here do. So, maybe that has a bit to do with the bargain prices that we tend to find enjoy on Ebay, etc. I also think dealers have to be aware of what guitars are going for in the open market instead of pricing themselves out of it... as an example, when I see a nice D15 on Craigslist going for $425 (or best offer) vs. a dealer on Gbase selling one for over $700, it's sort of an easy decision which direction to lean in.

When someone well known is playing an acoustic on TV, 9 times out of ten it's a Martin. Is that marketing or what :?:

 

[jwsamuel]

When someone well known is playing an acoustic on TV, 9 times out of ten it's a Martin. Is that marketing or what :?:

It is what! Martin does not endorse artists and does not provide free guitars for artists to play in concert or on TV. The only free guitars that Martin gives are to the people who have signature Martin guitars. They get the first two (I think it is two, but it could only be one) guitars of the model and they get to designate a charity for a portion of the revenue to go to.

So if you are seeing a lot of Martins on TV, it is because the artists are choosing them.

I also think the number is not nine out of 10. I see plenty of Taylors on TV too.

Jim

 

[california]

Should Fender not be taking a harder stand on their pricing?

What is a hard stand? MSRPs mean nothing in this business -- discounts for most brands start at 25% and then get better from there. The new Taylor I just bought was nearly 40% off list, and I regularly see new Tacoma D-50s in the $1500 area, list price: $2299. Graham had another point -- we're all looking for the bargain of the century, and hopefully the guitar of the century will come along with it. What does it say about us when we KNOW a guitar selling for $1500 is worth $2500 but we're still looking for one at a grand (and yes, I stand guilty as charged)????

Guild is going to have issues as long as (1) they sell clones of their best intruments as GADs at half what Tacoma guitars cost, (2) guys like us prefer used Guilds to new and (3) The market on used Guilds stays where it is: would you by a new D-55 when a Westerly with some history is $1000 less on eBay or Gbase???

Every brand is diluting their market. Guild has GADs, Taylor has 100s and 200s and Martin has more crazy low priced gits than even Guitar Center can keep track of; and unlike Martin, Guild under FMIC hasn't stooped so low as to use synthtinc fingerboars and natural -- meaning unfinished --finishes to keep prices in the Takamine range.

 

[jwsamuel]

Guild is going to have issues as long as (1) they sell clones of their best intruments as GADs at half what Tacoma guitars cost, (2) guys like us prefer used Guilds to new and (3) The market on used Guilds stays where it is: would you by a new D-55 when a Westerly with some history is $1000 less on eBay or Gbase???

You forgot (4) Allow seconds on the market at greatly reduced prices.

and unlike Martin, Guild under FMIC hasn't stooped so low as to use synthtinc fingerboars and natural -- meaning unfinished --finishes to keep prices in the Takamine range.

Which Martin is unfinished?

Jim

 

[california]

Guild is going to have issues as long as (1) they sell clones of their best intruments as GADs at half what Tacoma guitars cost, (2) guys like us prefer used Guilds to new and (3) The market on used Guilds stays where it is: would you by a new D-55 when a Westerly with some history is $1000 less on eBay or Gbase???

You forgot (4) Allow seconds on the market at greatly reduced prices.

and unlike Martin, Guild under FMIC hasn't stooped so low as to use synthtinc fingerboars and natural -- meaning unfinished --finishes to keep prices in the Takamine range.

Which Martin is unfinished?

Jim

GC has a bunch of under $1000 Martins with "natural" finishes -- I doubt they're the hand rubbed kind on Larrivees and early Guilds -- they seem to have no finish at all. Here's an example from their website, a guitar that retails for about $500 at Musicians Friend: http://www.mguitar.com/guitars/choosing ... p=m&m=DX1K . Under the specs for Finish, back and sides it lists "none."

 

[Guildmark]

DX1K . Under the specs for Finish, back and sides it lists "none."

Note the side and back material = HPL (High Pressure Laminate) The texture is "built in". It isn't finished because the final surface is part of the laminate. The tour guide at Martin when we were there two years ago called it "something close to formica".

 

[West R Lee]

Very interesting read here guys.

Thanks,
West

 

[california]

DX1K . Under the specs for Finish, back and sides it lists "none."

Note the side and back material = HPL (High Pressurer Laminate) The texture is "built in". It isn't finished because the final surface is part of the laminate. The tour guide at Martin when we were there two years ago called it "something close to formica".

I can't believe he said that! Just what I'd want in my collection, a Formica Martin! How many little Formicas did they have to kill to make that guitar????

 

[Scratch]

I've got a 2006 D12X1 Martin formica. Any buyers?

 

[Jeff]

DX1K . The texture is "built in". It isn't finished because the final surface is part of the laminate. The tour guide at Martin when we were there two years ago called it "something close to formica".

I recall a while back picking up a Martin made with a synthetic body. Seem to remember "Formica Like" as an accurate descriptor.

Fiberglass Ovations aren't half bad sounding, they're just a pain to hold & play, like trying to play pretty holdin a greasy watermelon in your lap. Plastic Martin prolly do all right for a guy's swamp guitar

Must not have impressed me, seems I waited till I found the DV 62 before I bought my first Dreadnaught.

 

[fungusyoung]

Plastic Martin prolly do all right for a guy's swamp guitar

Must not have impressed me, seems I waited till I found the DV 62 before I bought my first Dreadnaught.

Well, you are SPOILED! I know you know that, Jeff, but I couldn't resist.
For what it's worth, I love my Little Martin. I used to own a 000-XE also,
and that guitar wasn't half bad either. It was a no brainer though to get
rid of that & install electronics into the 000-15... which is a guitar, by the
way, that I gather you would like quite a bit.... basically Martin's M20.

 

[Jeff]

[quote="fungusyoung"
Well, you are SPOILED! 000-15... which is a guitar, by the
way, that I gather you would like quite a bit.... basically Martin's M20.[/quote]



OK, I apologize for the crack about Plastic Martins, but I'm standing by the slippery Ovation reference.

I really like Martin's 00-15. I'ts a tiny bit bigger than My F 20.

They aren't all the same but the one I played in the shop here a while back was a crackerjack. It sold quickly & they haven't had another come in.

Martin 000's I see are substantially bigger than the Guild 20's.

My experience with the little Martin caused me to notice my F 20 had some fret buzz & get it fixed. 8)