Acoustic Guitar Magazine Cover Story: Guild!

coastie99

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
8,662
Reaction score
27
Location
Greymouth, West Coast, Newsyland
fungusyoung said:
coastie99 said:
Ray Davies.

Of Kinks fame ?

What is he currently up to ?



Indeed. He made a very good solo record a couple years back called Other Peoples Lives. I saw him live 18 months ago or so in Philly, and he was dynamite. Same old Ray.

Incidentally, a short time before this record was finished, Ray was nearly killed in New Orleans when he tried to stop the theft of his girlfriend's purse.

Here he is on the tour I saw with one of his Ovations:

MacQueen-Ray-BlueAcousticHat1.jpg

Ah, he looked much better clutching a Starfire III !

The Kinks still perform regularly at Maison Coastie, great simple guitar-driven music.

I'm pretty sure I did read about that New Orleans incident.

Apart from Ray and Chrissie making beautiful music together (presumably), did they ever do anything musical together ?
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
458
Reaction score
0
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Lynchings over Guild article

You know, I've been a member of this forum for some time and I have really, really enjoyed it. Occasionally, I've witnessed some passionate discussions showing really strong spirit. But - and maybe I've just not looked around hard enough - I've never seen the kind of name-calling and even insulting discussion the Guild article in Acoustic Guitar magazine brought forth.

When I received my copy of the magazine, and read the article, I said to myself, "I wonder what my buddies on the LTG think of this - but whatever, I think I should stay out of it." But, eventually, I wandered by and sure enough, it was a conversation in full swing. I read and I enjoyed for the most part. Then, I decided to intone what to me was a very benign slant on things. My only comment about the magazine article was that I felt it pretty closely followed the Fender version of Guild's history and that well, being a big advertiser Fender was probably consulted and the information came from them.

This led to a response that accused me of a lack of tact, professionalism, and understanding. Basically, my comments were thought to impune the article's writer, Ben Elder, the publication and all staff and writers current, past and present. Fascinating. Talk about striking a nerve! I thought it interesting that of all the criticism and comments on this thread, it was my rather benign remark in an otherwise positive post that touched off this attack. To be fair, I decided to take the gentleman's suggestion that I read the comments of the Teja Gerkin the senior editor and followed the link.

I would recommend this to all of you - if you want to see just how great we have it here in Don's Guildom! I started with the initial posting - which I admit was pretty strong. But the vitriolic war of words that followed was sad. Here were supposed adults and people "in the know" about the world of music and guitars slugging it out - even profanity was permitted. A sad testament to the ability to use language to express thoughts. Finally, after much spewing, I found the editor's comments. He simply stated (my interpretation) they didn't ask for Fender's comments and they don't show favoratism - this was just one in a series about manufacturers. Fair enough, though I overlooked the tone of the response.

But, you know...all of this, from the article to the display on this forum and the poor taste and angry explosion on whatever forum I was witnessing, has left a bad taste in my mouth. I am sorry I even participated it. I regret I responded to the insults. Sadly, I have decided I will let my subscription to the magazine lapse in the normal course and remove them from my company's review list. After reading the comments on that other forum - wow! I had no idea there was so much acerbic distaste and anger frothing out there. So, gentlemen and women, be extra thankful we have this mostly sane and calm space for discourse (thank you Don, really) on something we all feel strongly about without having to stoop to such unpleasantness. But...even here...keep your heads down. I wish you all well. dbs
 

GuildFS4612CE

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
498
I've refrained from making any comments, hoping everyone would learn from stumbling down this weed strewn garden path.

Perhaps everyone has.

And to the gentleman who posted the link with the intent to ignite the fire....I feel sad, we've had enough fires in California recently.

And, Geezers, for ANY line to continue, it needs new blood. If any non Guild owners looked at this article and it piqued their interest enough to try a Guild...or at least recognize the name...then the article served it's purpose.

Be glad there WAS an article.

And be glad we have a forum like LTG...and thanks to Don for tolerating this difficult thread for so long.

Peace
 

california

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
1,654
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles
Re: Lynchings over Guild article

SmithfieldFair said:
You know, I've been a member of this forum for some time and I have really, really enjoyed it. Occasionally, I've witnessed some passionate discussions showing really strong spirit. But - and maybe I've just not looked around hard enough - I've never seen the kind of name-calling and even insulting discussion the Guild article in Acoustic Guitar magazine brought forth.

When I received my copy of the magazine, and read the article, I said to myself, "I wonder what my buddies on the LTG think of this - but whatever, I think I should stay out of it." But, eventually, I wandered by and sure enough, it was a conversation in full swing. I read and I enjoyed for the most part. Then, I decided to intone what to me was a very benign slant on things. My only comment about the magazine article was that I felt it pretty closely followed the Fender version of Guild's history and that well, being a big advertiser Fender was probably consulted and the information came from them.

This led to a response that accused me of a lack of tact, professionalism, and understanding. Basically, my comments were thought to impune the article's writer, Ben Elder, the publication and all staff and writers current, past and present. Fascinating. Talk about striking a nerve! I thought it interesting that of all the criticism and comments on this thread, it was my rather benign remark in an otherwise positive post that touched off this attack. To be fair, I decided to take the gentleman's suggestion that I read the comments of the Teja Gerkin the senior editor and followed the link.

I would recommend this to all of you - if you want to see just how great we have it here in Don's Guildom! I started with the initial posting - which I admit was pretty strong. But the vitriolic war of words that followed was sad. Here were supposed adults and people "in the know" about the world of music and guitars slugging it out - even profanity was permitted. A sad testament to the ability to use language to express thoughts. Finally, after much spewing, I found the editor's comments. He simply stated (my interpretation) they didn't ask for Fender's comments and they don't show favoratism - this was just one in a series about manufacturers. Fair enough, though I overlooked the tone of the response.

But, you know...all of this, from the article to the display on this forum and the poor taste and angry explosion on whatever forum I was witnessing, has left a bad taste in my mouth. I am sorry I even participated it. I regret I responded to the insults. Sadly, I have decided I will let my subscription to the magazine lapse in the normal course and remove them from my company's review list. After reading the comments on that other forum - wow! I had no idea there was so much acerbic distaste and anger frothing out there. So, gentlemen and women, be extra thankful we have this mostly sane and calm space for discourse (thank you Don, really) on something we all feel strongly about without having to stoop to such unpleasantness. But...even here...keep your heads down. I wish you all well. dbs

Dudley -- don't cancel your subscription because a few guys got a little hot headed. Yeah, the article wasn't great, but if Guild is making good guitars in Tacoma and this boosts sales, its probably a good thing -- at least they were in the press. Jane was right in her last post -- at least there WAS an article. A great PR person, Lee Solters -- who represented stars like Sinatra, Streisand and Michael Jackson -- once said that it doesn't matter what they say about you as long as your name is in the press. So what if Sinatra got headlines about punching out a heckler -- he was in the news.

Guild got a huge honking cover story, the kind of press that companies die for. Yes the story follows their marketing line: when a reporter does a story like this the first place he/she goes is to the company. A magazine isn't going to do a feature article to trash a company. A couple of months ago the same magazine did a feature on Santa Cruz guitars. I bought the SC party line and went looking high and low for them. When I finally found some I determined they weren't what I was looking for -- but at least I took a look because of the article, and I'll probably do it again. What matters is that for the next few months when all those AG Magazine readers are out buying stringed Christmas presents for others -- and themselves, they'll be thinking Guild because of this article. The article won't necessarily make them drink, but at least they've been led to the water.

Smithfield's right -- it is good that some constructive conversation on LTG has come from this article. And he's also right that the folks on the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum are totally over the top, and a lot of the stuff on there is totally uncalled for. If he bruised some egos, such is life. We're musicians -- not everyone likes our playing so they listen and move on. He spoke his mind -- I happen to agree -- and got an outrageous response. I have my own theory about the response he got: I think the magazine doth protest too much -- they got caught with their pants down in FMIC's bathroom -- had they interviewed more than the current crop of Guildies in Tacoma and at FMIC headquarters the story of Guild's past may have been a little more balanced.

One thing we all have to remember is that an article like the one in AG was not meant to promote vintage Guilds, it is there to guide readers to buying new ones. Which bring us back to what Donnie Wade is doing to improve his brand and make the next generation of Guild guitars a great batch of instruments.

Last night there was a story on NPR about how GM pulled their advertising from the national editions of the Los Angeles Times because one of their reporters took them to task about 5 years ago for making crappy cars. What pissed GM off the most was that the guy was right, which is why they reacted so strongly. Today GM is recovering, making quality cars that people like and can depend on, and the reporter has gone as far as saying that in many areas they are now outperforming the Japanese. His new articles are selling cars, even when put in the perspective of GMs bad years. Remember, this article was in Acoustic Guitar Magazine, not Vintage Guitar Magazine. Practically all ads in the mag are for new guitars, those ads, and articles about new guitars are what their readers expect. At the end of the day, a reader isn't going to buy a guitar because it was or wasn't made in Tacoma, Hoboken, Westerly, Corona or Beijing: They'll buy it because the sound, build and price are right. And many will take their first look because of that article.
 

Scratch

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
6,909
Reaction score
20
Location
Canyon Lake, TX.
Re: Lynchings over Guild article

california said:
SmithfieldFair said:
You know, I've been a member of this forum for some time and I have really, really enjoyed it. Occasionally, I've witnessed some passionate discussions showing really strong spirit. But - and maybe I've just not looked around hard enough - I've never seen the kind of name-calling and even insulting discussion the Guild article in Acoustic Guitar magazine brought forth.

When I received my copy of the magazine, and read the article, I said to myself, "I wonder what my buddies on the LTG think of this - but whatever, I think I should stay out of it." But, eventually, I wandered by and sure enough, it was a conversation in full swing. I read and I enjoyed for the most part. Then, I decided to intone what to me was a very benign slant on things. My only comment about the magazine article was that I felt it pretty closely followed the Fender version of Guild's history and that well, being a big advertiser Fender was probably consulted and the information came from them.

This led to a response that accused me of a lack of tact, professionalism, and understanding. Basically, my comments were thought to impune the article's writer, Ben Elder, the publication and all staff and writers current, past and present. Fascinating. Talk about striking a nerve! I thought it interesting that of all the criticism and comments on this thread, it was my rather benign remark in an otherwise positive post that touched off this attack. To be fair, I decided to take the gentleman's suggestion that I read the comments of the Teja Gerkin the senior editor and followed the link.

I would recommend this to all of you - if you want to see just how great we have it here in Don's Guildom! I started with the initial posting - which I admit was pretty strong. But the vitriolic war of words that followed was sad. Here were supposed adults and people "in the know" about the world of music and guitars slugging it out - even profanity was permitted. A sad testament to the ability to use language to express thoughts. Finally, after much spewing, I found the editor's comments. He simply stated (my interpretation) they didn't ask for Fender's comments and they don't show favoratism - this was just one in a series about manufacturers. Fair enough, though I overlooked the tone of the response.

But, you know...all of this, from the article to the display on this forum and the poor taste and angry explosion on whatever forum I was witnessing, has left a bad taste in my mouth. I am sorry I even participated it. I regret I responded to the insults. Sadly, I have decided I will let my subscription to the magazine lapse in the normal course and remove them from my company's review list. After reading the comments on that other forum - wow! I had no idea there was so much acerbic distaste and anger frothing out there. So, gentlemen and women, be extra thankful we have this mostly sane and calm space for discourse (thank you Don, really) on something we all feel strongly about without having to stoop to such unpleasantness. But...even here...keep your heads down. I wish you all well. dbs

Dudley -- don't cancel your subscription because a few guys got a little hot headed. Yeah, the article wasn't great, but if Guild is making good guitars in Tacoma and this boosts sales, its probably a good thing -- at least they were in the press. Jane was right in her last post -- at least there WAS an article. A great PR person, Lee Solters -- who represented stars like Sinatra, Streisand and Michael Jackson -- once said that it doesn't matter what they say about you as long as your name is in the press. So what if Sinatra got headlines about punching out a heckler -- he was in the news.

Guild got a huge honking cover story, the kind of press that companies die for. Yes the story follows their marketing line: when a reporter does a story like this the first place he/she goes is to the company. A magazine isn't going to do a feature article to trash a company. A couple of months ago the same magazine did a feature on Santa Cruz guitars. I bought the SC party line and went looking high and low for them. When I finally found some I determined they weren't what I was looking for -- but at least I took a look because of the article, and I'll probably do it again. What matters is that for the next few months when all those AG Magazine readers are out buying stringed Christmas presents for others -- and themselves, they'll be thinking Guild because of this article. The article won't necessarily make them drink, but at least they've been led to the water.

Smithfield's right -- it is good that some constructive conversation on LTG has come from this article. And he's also right that the folks on the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum are totally over the top, and a lot of the stuff on there is totally uncalled for. If he bruised some egos, such is life. We're musicians -- not everyone likes our playing so they listen and move on. He spoke his mind -- I happen to agree -- and got an outrageous response. I have my own theory about the response he got: I think the magazine doth protest too much -- they got caught with their pants down in FMIC's bathroom -- had they interviewed more than the current crop of Guildies in Tacoma and at FMIC headquarters the story of Guild's past may have been a little more balanced.

One thing we all have to remember is that an article like the one in AG was not meant to promote vintage Guilds, it is there to guide readers to buying new ones. Which bring us back to what Donnie Wade is doing to improve his brand and make the next generation of Guild guitars a great batch of instruments.

Last night there was a story on NPR about how GM pulled their advertising from the national editions of the Los Angeles Times because one of their reporters took them to task about 5 years ago for making crappy cars. What pissed GM off the most was that the guy was right, which is why they reacted so strongly. Today GM is recovering, making quality cars that people like and can depend on, and the reporter has gone as far as saying that in many areas they are now outperforming the Japanese. His new articles are selling cars, even when put in the perspective of GMs bad years. Remember, this article was in Acoustic Guitar Magazine, not Vintage Guitar Magazine. Practically all ads in the mag are for new guitars, those ads, and articles about new guitars are what their readers expect.

At the end of the day, a reader isn't going to buy a guitar because it was or wasn't made in Tacoma, Hoboken, Westerly, Corona or Beijing: They'll buy it because the sound, build and price are right. And many will take their first look because of that article.

Hey Cal... New addition to your signature line? You've got me studying BR bigtime!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 

guildzilla

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
2,108
Reaction score
1
Location
Worthington, Ohio
I certainly don't want to contribute and participate in any discussion similar to what went down on AGF, but I generally feel the people of LTG stay within the boundaries when there is controversy and differing opinions.

I hope that I do that.

Nevertheless, I don't want anyone to have to keep their heads down too far. We may never get to the truth on any topic, but open discussion facilitates understanding of the topic and of each other.

I think it is excellent that some of the contributors on here believe the Tacoma Guilds are the best Guilds ever. They know something I don't know and they share it with me. I've never had a Tacoma Guild, but I'm willing, partly because I listen and get curious.

What a drag it would be if every post on LTG was: "Hey, great guitar." "Yeah, beauty!"

It will also be good for ACOUSTIC GUITAR magazine that we had this discussion and they overheard it. All of this was useful feedback. And cheaper than a marketing focus group.
 

zplay

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
422
Reaction score
1
Location
eastern PA
Nevertheless, I don't want anyone to have to keep their heads down too far. We may never get to the truth on any topic, but open discussion facilitates understanding of the topic and of each other.

I think it is excellent that some of the contributors on here believe the Tacoma Guilds are the best Guilds ever. They know something I don't know and they share it with me. I've never had a Tacoma Guild, but I'm willing, partly because I listen and get curious.

What a drag it would be if every post on LTG was: "Hey, great guitar." "Yeah, beauty!"

It will also be good for ACOUSTIC GUITAR magazine that we had this discussion and they overheard it. All of this was useful feedback. And cheaper than a marketing focus group.

Well put, 'zilla!
Along the lines of what I posted over at AG, I found these threads to be very interesting, useful, informative AND entertaining, though as I gather from Smithfield's last post, not so entertaining for all. I understand his position and I think that is a damn shame that some felt the need to spring to the defence of another with daggers drawn. I'm not sure that the writer or editor at AG really needed blood shed on his behalf. I'd echo what 'zilla wrote, namely that I hope people here remain generous with their opinions, pro or con, because it does advance the cause of being better informed about our guitars. I'd also agree that the net effect on AG's articles may be positive, as their producers MAY be more apt to research topics more thoroughly within their own time limitations.
 

West R Lee

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
17,777
Reaction score
2,718
Location
East Texas
My turn... and I'll try to be diplomatic, although I'm not nearly as articulate as these guys.

I feel the same hurt and disappointment that I think Dudley feels. I've kept quiet on specific aspects of the AG article, but since some of you are soliciting opinions, here's mine.

And I quote: Page 71, Farewell Westerly, Westward Ho! "Salvation came in 1995, when the company was purchased by Fender Musical Instruments Corporation." What salvation? If the article is referring to the influx of Fender money to keep Westerly building Guild guitars, then so be it, and they may very well have saved the line for 6 years. But it certainly wasn't the "salvation" of the brand. I think there is little doubt that immediately after the move FROM Westerly, that the quality of the product began to diminish. Did I say diminish, heck....took a screaming nose dive. Few will argue that point.

Page 71, Farewell Westerly, Westward Ho! "Rhode Island's wildly fluctuating humidity and temperature and the facilities aging machinery meant the factory would require a serious and expensive overhaul." Now they build them in Washington state. What's the humidity run up there in Tacoma Jeff? In hindsight, wouldn't have been cheaper to have retrofitted Westerly than to have fitted Corona, then bought Tacoma, and fitted both to build Guilds? :roll:

The point that hasn't been made, and what keeps getting under my skin, is that Fender moved Guild to California for one reason....to save and/or make money. They sought to consolidate production of all of their guitars in one facility. Unfortunately for them....and us, Fender's expertise was in the manufacture of solid body electrics. Why is that so hard to admit? I also suspect that Fender soon discovered that there was more to building quality acoustics than they had origionally thought. Two extremely serious business miscalculations. Why is that impossible for anyone to admit? I'm an uneducated Texas dummy, but to me, Stevie Wonder can see that.

Then, realizing their mistake, Fender purchased Tacoma. Same temperature and humidity fluctuation as Rhode Island, but I suspect the Tacoma factory is climate controlled, or at least, better controlled than Westerly.

At the risk of stepping on toes here. I've never personally cared for any Corona Guild I've played. The weekend before last, I played some Tacoma Guilds that I liked. I'm not yet convinced that the Tacomas are the guitars that Westerlys were, we won't know that for 30 or so years, but they are doing it better than they were at Corona. No offense guys, but my screen name is West R Lee. :D I think all my Guild brothers here know I love them regardless of where their guitar was built. I suppose that one quote could be construed as an admission: Page 72, Farewell Westerly, Westward Ho! "Still, creating a high end acoustic factory within a mostly solidbody environment proved to be a challenge."

I've recently found an 80's model F50R in mint condition, priced cheaper than a brand new Tacoma F50R. Which would you buy? To me a no brainer.

Another issue.......advertising, unrelated to the article, but related to the issue. In another thread here at LTG, someone asks......"Where do I get Guild caps, coffee mugs, paraphenalia?" Good question! You can't find the stuff. That which you can find comes off of Ebay, mostly from sellers in Arizona that I suspect are, or were Fender employees. I'm sure they've hoarded the stuff, and are making money off of the fact that Fender doesn't market Guild. There is no better advertising than products which proudly display your name, especially when people would be willing to pay Fender to wear their caps and drink from their cups. Yet these items are virtually nonexistant. I think they've made, or are making a stab at "signature artists", like Willy Porter....what a fine talent he is. But Fender did so only after seeing the great success that Taylor has had with Doyle Dykes. I'm not a marketing genious, but give me a break. Why doesn't Fender either poopoo or get off the pot with Guild? And they spent how many million dollars to acquire Ovation? What are they going to do with Ovation? It would seem to me that they're not done with Guild yet....far from it. $100,000 for a few Guild tees, cups, caps, etc. Nurture the Willy porter thing, make a few guitar shows....but do something to enhance the visibility your product.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071029/20071029005828.html?.v=1

I take the AG article with a grain of salt, I see it for what it is. California, you are correct, AG is a magazine primarily geared toward new equipment, not vintage. The new equipment advertisers pay AG's bills....hence, the article. It really did make an interesting read, as does this thread.

West
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
The AG article was assigned to a freelancer, turned in on time and covered the topics discussed beforehand. Between then and presstime, it was almost completely redirected, reshaped and rewritten (one can only assume) in-house, transformed into a published version that retains perhaps two words of the original draft. Five, if you count the oddly attributed byline.
 

West R Lee

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
17,777
Reaction score
2,718
Location
East Texas
Thank you GuildFS, I didn't appreciate John Denver when he was alive....now that he's gone, I can't get enough of him. Lord, what beautiful music.

West
 

california

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
1,654
Reaction score
0
Location
Los Angeles

Scratch

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
6,909
Reaction score
20
Location
Canyon Lake, TX.
6L6 said:
Life without a good 12 string would not be worth living.

6

As cantankerous as 12ers can be, there's not a six that can match the beauty of those harmonizing octaves... Hope they once again find their rightful place; obviously not to replace 6ers, but creatively adopted to compliment more songs. Wish everyone coulda heard Guildmark at Arlington. Wow...
 

JerryR

Enlightened Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
7,650
Reaction score
650
Location
Way, way North East Texas, Wiltshire, England
Scratch said:
6L6 said:
Life without a good 12 string would not be worth living.

6

As cantankerous as 12ers can be, there's not a six that can match the beauty of those harmonizing octaves... Hope they once again find their rightful place; obviously not to replace 6ers, but creatively adopted to compliment more songs. Wish everyone coulda heard Guildmark at Arlington. Wow...


I'm still trying to work out how to play both my guitars simultaneously to get this effect :?
 

Jahn

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
64
Location
NYC
Personally, when I received my copy of AG in the mail, I was directing more vitriol towards the shipper of the Guild Starfire XII lurking below it...

SF001.jpg


Both arrived tattered, but I was happy to get both, hehe. It's not everyday you get Guilds in the mail!
 
Top