Westerly Collection Disappearing?

[Westerly Wood]

I was just surprised seeing those high end versions gone. Sure still a Natural D-55 and a Natural F-55 Rosewood available, but the F-55 Maple entirely gone? Interesting...Also the D-55 Antique Sunburst and both F-512 in Sunburst are cool looking models, hard to believe their would not sell.

D-55 in Antique Sunburst (Discontinued)
F-55 Maple in Natural (DISCONTINUED)
F-55 Maple in Antique Burst (DISCONTINUED)
F-55 Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)
F-512 Maple in Antique Burst(DISCONTINUED)
F-512 in Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)

In any case it looks to me the marketing girls and guys in Santa Monica are redesigning the entire Guild webpage currently, maybe we need to wait a bit to see the outcome.

Ralf

and this was one of the reasons for my alarm, Ralf. Not to be a pessimist at all, just a gut reaction to the list overall. And then I began to wonder if the Guild brand is profitable for CMG, and then finally, how long would they keep it alive if it is not very profitable. It's still a good conversation, allbeit, mostly conjecture as we just cannot know.

 

[davismanLV]

Or did Guild just choose an incorrect word and used DISCONTINUED instead of saying PRODUCTION SUSPENDED? Those are two very different things. Discontinued sounds so permanent compared to suspended. But I could be wrong, of course....

 

[davismanLV]

So no more D55 in Antique Burst? That's sad. What makes you think it's not production suspended, Ralf?

 

[Guildedagain]

Darned Reverb sales, my Westerly Collection has been disappearing.

 

[adorshki]

I was just surprised seeing those high end versions gone. Sure still a Natural D-55 and a Natural F-55 Rosewood available, but the F-55 Maple entirely gone?
Ralf

That one's slated to be re-introduced as the F-52.

 

[davismanLV]

That one's slated to be re-introduced as the F-52.

Why not 32? Or 62??

 

[adorshki]

Why not 32? Or 62??

Those're gonna be the new F20 and F30.

 

[chazmo]

Actually a very long list of discontinued models or variants in all areas! I'm very surprised seeing some highend US made guitars gone.

Guild USA:
D-20E in Natural (DISOCONTINUED)
D-20E in Vintage Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)
D-40 in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
D-55 in Antique Sunburst (Discontinued)
F-40 in Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)
F-55 Maple in Natural (DISCONTINUED)
F-55 Maple in Antique Burst (DISCONTINUED)
F-55 Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)
F-512 Maple in Antique Burst(DISCONTINUED)
F-512 in Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)
M-20E in Natural (DISCONTINUED)
M-20E in Vintage Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
M-40 in Natural (DISCONTINUED)
M-40 in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
M-40E in Antique Sunburst (DISCONTINUED)

Newark St. Collection:
A-150 Savoy Special Snowcrest White(DISCONTINUED)
Aristocrat HH in Snowcrest White(DISCONTINUED)
M-75 Aristocrat in Black(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire II ST Dynasonic in Royal Brown(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire II ST in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire III in Black(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire IV in Black(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire IV ST Lefty in Black(DISCONTINUED)
T-Bird ST P90 in Pelham Blue(DISCONTINUED)
X-175 Manhattan in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire Bass in Cherry Red(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire Bass II in Black(DISCONTINUED)
Starfire Bass II in Cherry Red(DISCONTINUED)

Westerly Collection:
D-120 in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
D-120CE in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
D-140 in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
D-140 in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
D-140CE in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
D-140CE in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
D-150(DISCONTINUED)
D-150CE(DISCONTINUED)
D-260E Deluxe(DISCONTINUED)
D-1212 in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
F-150CE(DISCONTINUED)
F-1512(DISONTINUED)
F-2512E Maple(DISCONTINUED)
M-120 Natural (DISCONTINUED)
M-120E in Cherry Red(DISCONTINUED)
OM-120 in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
OM-140CE in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
OM-140LCE in Natural(DISCONTINUED)
OM-140CE in Antique Sunburst(DISCONTINUED)
OM-150CE(DISCONTINUED)
OM-260CE Deluxe In Antique Burst (DISCONTINUED)

Ralf

Ralf, where'd this list come from? Looking at guildguitars.com, I do see that some (all) of the finishes and options (electric, for example) for some of the US models have vanished, but looks like all the models themselves are still available. Did any vanish, you think?

 

[beecee]

Ralf, where'd this list come from? Looking at guildguitars.com, I do see that some (all) of the finishes and options (electric, for example) for some of the US models have vanished, but looks like all the models themselves are still available. Did any vanish, you think?

They may have hired the guy from early back in Westerly who used to keep track of serial numbers to compile this detailed accurate info.....

 

[SFIV1967]

Ralf, where'd this list come from?...Did any vanish, you think?

The OP was that most 100 series was no longer shown. EDIT: Not the case.
But I was curious what else is gone. All info is directly from the Guild website. A simple search for discontinued gave 56 results. I simply exported and sorted the list. And they show it clearly per model, here as example the D-20E:



EDIT: But now some of them are back online and no longer show "Discontinued".

Ralf

 

[chazmo]

Gotcha', Ralf. OK. Wow, yeah, no I do not see a F-55 Maple That'd be quite a shame if they're stopping production on them. It is possible in that case that they haven't "discontinued" it like the other variants (e.g., D-20E).

Yeah, OK, in the other US-built cases, where it says "discontinued", that is unfortunate. It may not mean anything permanent, but my guess is that Guild is just reacting to marketing here and probably following market trends. I guess the big question is why do they (marketing, presumably) feel it necessary to slim down the product line? Does it mean something, re: focus on other stuff? I don't recall New Hartford ever discontinuing a line

As for the Westerly series, well, (I think) I remember various models coming and going from the GAD and 100- series as part of Fender... So, that might really indicate some model changes.

 

[adorshki]

Gotcha', Ralf. OK. Wow, yeah, no I do not see a F-55 Maple That'd be quite a shame if they're stopping production on them. It is possible in that case that they haven't "discontinued" it like the other variants (e.g., D-20E).

Yeah, OK, in the other US-built cases, where it says "discontinued", that is unfortunate. It may not mean anything permanent, but my guess is that Guild is just reacting to marketing here and probably following market trends. I guess the big question is why do they (marketing, presumably) feel it necessary to slim down the product line? Does it mean something, re: focus on other stuff? I don't recall New Hartford ever discontinuing a line

As for the Westerly series, well, (I think) I remember various models coming and going from the GAD and 100- series as part of Fender... So, that might really indicate some model changes.

For sure all the "outside the box" new designs have been showing up in the Westerly Collection, all the OM archbacks, for example.

Whether domestic or import, betcha they build a certain number for economy of scale, see how they sell, and then slow movers get discontinued.

Betcha also there's frequently "discontinued" inventory still on hand that they need to move out to make room for new incoming. Stale stuff sitting in Oxnard isn't making 'em any money, at least if they offer it to dealers at discount they recoup some cash to re-invest in stuff that sells.

It's retailing/wholesaling 101: You don't make your money on volume, you make your money on turning inventory. If you earn 50% on $1000.00 of inventory cost twice a year, it looks like great profit, but it's still not as profitable as earning 20% on it 6 or more times a year.

Also have suspected they're aware when certain niches are "saturated" like US-built F30's, and won't build 'em until they see sufficient demand (inquiries from dealers and customers)

Betcha right now they see more than enough F55 Maples existing to last the market for a couple of years at least at the demand levels they've seen, and will revive it in some form when appropriate. It is after all a business, and if we want to see any future product at all we should be glad they're exhibiting signs of intelligent production planning.

 

[chazmo]

Al, my problem with the "turning inventory" explanation is that with new products, people might not buy the stock that's available if it's marked discontinued (or vanished) from the web site.

 

[geoguy]

Antique Sunburst is still listed as an available option for some guitars, e.g. D-55 & F-512, but only for instruments that come equipped with a pickup.

 

[adorshki]

Al, my problem with the "turning inventory" explanation is that with new products, people might not buy the stock that's available if it's marked discontinued (or vanished) from the web site.

Converse: If it was a "dog" in the first place, how much business are they really losing ? A

I just realized as well that perhaps your emphasis was on "new" by which you may mean recently introduced models, and that perhaps CMG's definition of "new" is quite a bit different than ours, like, "less than 2 years old" (Initially I thought you meant "brand new", but didn't seem to make sense in your scenario)

The turns issue is a way of gauging how much return your inventory $ are making, if you don't measure it you're simply not going to survive.
Maximizing turns is what leads to the decision to discontinue or "closeout" and the US buying public is very well conditioned to expect deep discounts on closeouts, which is often the only buying incentive a manufacturer can offer.

Pretty sure by the time it's "Discontinued" on the site it's already in dealer's hands or they're trying to get it there as quickly as possible. Nobody wants to pay warehousing overhead on slow-moving product. (So there's another reason to offer closeout price incentives to dealers)

When CMG first opened and folks were looking for "legacy" New Hartford product, they were happy to refer 'em to retailers who had the product, I'm sure they'd do the same in these cases because it only helps their primary customers with their inventory turns.

We're also looking at this through the lens of existing ownership, bemoaning the loss of variety for stuff we'll likely never even buy ourselves, whereas CMG needs to present their best most current stuff to a customer who's shopping makers' sites just to see what they've got and try to decide if Guild's a brand worth investigating further. Too much stuff to wade through doesn't keep 'em around.

 

[chazmo]

Actually, Al, what I meant by "new" was "not used." And, I'm focused and concerned about the Oxnard line-up, not the Westerly series (apologies for the thread veer). With varying trims and sunbursts there, I think the inventory logic is probably valid. But, what about the F-55 Maple (a.k.a F-50)? Have they dropped Guild's (arguably) most well-known and iconic flattop from the line-up? Again, I'm hoping it's just an oversight as they've been messing with the web site.

 

[davismanLV]

Al, my problem with the "turning inventory" explanation is that with new products, people might not buy the stock that's available if it's marked discontinued (or vanished) from the web site.

That was my thought too, chazmo! Suppose you have a decent inventory of say the F-55. Well you don't build any for a while and see what happens. But what is the impact on sales when you blatantly label that model "DISCONTINUED". Do people rush to buy them because there will be no more? Or do they think they're not popular and avoid them? I'm just wondering what the impact and marketing is behind labeling a certain model "DISCONTINUED".

 

[adorshki]

That was my thought too, chazmo! Suppose you have a decent inventory of say the F-55. Well you don't build any for a while and see what happens. But what is the impact on sales when you blatantly label that model "DISCONTINUED". Do people rush to buy them because there will be no more? Or do they think they're not popular and avoid them? I'm just wondering what the impact and marketing is behind labeling a certain model "DISCONTINUED".

You got 100 D20e Sunbursts on hand with total deliveries of 20 in the last year? How much business are you really losing by labeling it discontinued?

By the time they're labeled "discontinued", sales are already in the tank. It's not based on overstock, it's based on lack of sales in the first place. Then you set a deadline: If something doesn't change, then it's discontinued: If D20eSunburst sales don't pick up for some reason in the next 6 months, it's gone. Measuring that turnover is what measuring turns is all about.

By the time the website's updated I'm positive they've already done what they could to get that inventory into dealer's hands if at all possible, you don't mess around with something that's selling well.

Converse: by clearly telegraphing a model's "on the chopping block" they're also letting people know "if you want one you better act now" and preventing a potential run of rude surprises if somebody keeps attempting to buy something and keeps getting unexpected "discontinued" surprises.. that'd drive me off for sure, and the same effect as been known to turn off software users when they keep getting unfulfilled delivery promises for "vaporware": they look for another maker.

 

[cutrofiano]

... no 150 level at all, so the bulk of former GAD style guitars is gone.

My wonderful F-150R CE gains in value

 

[adorshki]

Actually, Al, what I meant by "new" was "not used." And, I'm focused and concerned about the Oxnard line-up, not the Westerly series (apologies for the thread veer). With varying trims and sunbursts there, I think the inventory logic is probably valid. But, what about the F-55 Maple (a.k.a F-50)? Have they dropped Guild's (arguably) most well-known and iconic flattop from the line-up? Again, I'm hoping it's just an oversight as they've been messing with the web site.

Agreed, that does seem a little unusual, and the recent premier of the GSR F55 makes me wonder if the real goal is to move that model to "very limited production( ie "GSR only)" status.


And re the prevalence of discontinued 'bursts I even wondered if perhaps there was a supply issue with dyes? Could they be trapped in transit or backlogged at point of manufacture like so many things recently?

Just allowing for other or additional reasons why something may be "discontinued", like, they can't guarantee when or if they'll make it again, with the previously mentioned philosophy of not making promises one can't keep.

Not that I'm "married" to the inventory control/production planning thing to the exclusion of other potential explanations, or that it's solely responsible for all the discontinuation decisions, but after 40 years in wholesale and retail sales and distribution, I've seen just how much that drives these kinds of issues in everything from components to computers to cars to paper.

With cars, setting new levels of styling and performance to stimulate demand or simply not be "left behind" guarantees models will be discontinued at some point to make way for the new ones, but if the new one don't sell then for sure it won't last.

Turns was so important to Heath/Zenith they paid a quarterly management bonus for exceeding 2.5 turns per quarter, along with a couple of others, like overall profit dollars and keeping past due accounts below a certain percentage of the total)

Funny thing was, most of the managers were totally focused on the total profit $ bonus, but after about a year I figured out if you made the 2.5 turns/quarter the profit bonus was virtually a "gimme", but those were boom times in the PC biz.

And not having the F55 Maple on the site is a little different than it being flagged as discontinued, the first could be an oversight which wouldn't surprise me, but actually going in and maintaining the site to flag it's a whole other level, I would be surprised if it was just a mistake.