We really need an answer to this....

[amnicon]

This is not an "Asian manufacture" problem. The Asian manufacturers are delivering what they're being paid to deliver.

I really wish this could be a more clear part of these conversations. For years there has been criticism pinned on "Import Guitars", when the real target ought to be "Companies that ask manufacturers for inexpensive products" and "Consumers that expect quality things for cheap prices".

 

[davismanLV]

I really wish this could be a more clear part of these conversations. For years there has been criticism pinned on "Import Guitars", when the real target ought to be "Companies that ask manufacturers for inexpensive products" and "Consumers that expect quality things for cheap prices".

Why the made in America guitars are so coveted. If you save like $12 to 25K on a guitar? This is the difference. And I'm not hating either.... buy new.... warranty. But it's about what you're willing to spend.

 

[Default]

For a glued-on acoustic guitar bridges (excluding “floating” bridge designs), the bridge must be glued to the raw wood of the soundboard. It has never been acceptable to glue a bridge to the finish, regardless of the chemical composition of the finish. When constructed properly (wood is bonded to wood), if the glue fails, either the adhesive gets replaced (old/bad glue), or the technique gets adjusted (insufficient amount of glue applied, or clamps were too tight, starving the bond). Either way, the correction is easily made.

In the (rather bizarre) case where the finish is lifting off the surface of the wood, but the bridge remains securely fastened to the finish, the solution has nothing to do with the finish. Who cares if the glue held to the finish? A finish has yet to be developed that will withstand 150 to 200 pounds of tension trying to rip it off the surface of the wood. At issue is the fact that proper construction methodology was not followed (or was deliberately ignored). I repeat, the bridge must be glued to the raw wood of the soundboard. When built correctly, the incident never occurs.

If the finish is applied prior to attaching the bridge, the finish must be removed from the bridge footprint (by scraping, sanding or routing). To not do so is a clear indication of either ignorance (“Nobody told me. Now that I know, I’ll do it right.”) or laziness/greed (“It takes too long, and time is money.”). The result for the consumer is the same: the bridge will come off, eventually.

I'm playing around with that water-based poly finish. One of the knocks on that is possible chipping down the road. It seems to be an easier and quicker to apply system. I wouldn't be confident enough to glue a bridge to it though.

 

[adorshki]

I really wish this could be a more clear part of these conversations. For years there has been criticism pinned on "Import Guitars", when the real target ought to be "Companies that ask manufacturers for inexpensive products" and "Consumers that expect quality things for cheap prices".

Fender told Grand Rewards how to build the guitars according to Fender specs. It was only an issue of who'd give 'em the best deal for building to a blueprint, not who could provide the cheapest generic. They even controlled the wood used, purchasing and shipping it into China under their own control for QC. The original GAD guitars at least (and Im pretty sure the 2nd gen "100 series"), were not generic builds with Guild labels.

Never saw this problem prior to the "Westerly Collection" guitars, either. While Grand Rewards apparently still makes the Guild imports, it appears that Cordoba has given 'em some new construction specs.

Regarding the issue of bashing or not bashing Asian builds, I've been saying for about ten years now the issue isn't quality, it's repairability.
When it costs the same to refret an axe as to replace it, something's wrong with the axe, in my opinion.
When the bridge comes off and will cost about as much to repair as to replace the guitar, there's something wrong with the guitar, in my opinion.

I don't WANT to buy 5 cheap guitars in succession, I want to buy one GOOD guitar that can be repaired and maintained as required, that yields dependable good voice and retains some intrinsic value, because of its repairability. I've had 25 good years out of my D25 so far with no end in sight yet, bought new for $700.00 and 2 complete refrets. 1200 for 25 years and it's not used up yet.

Show me a current import that'll match that. It wouldn't even be cheaper in the end. Frankly I don't understand why people even bother, except for needing a beater.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I don't WANT to buy 5 heap guitars in succession...

4 successions and you can have 20 heap guitars.

 

[chazmo]

4 successions and you can have 20 heap guitars.

Or you can just decide to launch them with a trebuchet, which is what the Ovation Fan Club did when they were "unhappy" with the cost-cutting that Ovation decided was needed to build crappy guitars. I think the situation is quite analogous to Guild, honestly.

 

[Guilderland21]

Regarding the issue of bashing or not bashing Asian builds, I've been saying for about ten years now the issue isn't quality, it's repairability.
When it costs the same to refret an axe as to replace it, something's wrong with the axe, in my opinion.

Bit of a veer, but are you suggesting that the Westerly Collection guitars are significantly more expensive to refret? If so, I'm curious why that is - poly finish on the neck? Relevant to my interests as I've got two of them (no major issues so far!), one of which I play enough that it's going to need a refret sooner or later.

 

[tonepoet]

I don’t think I’ve bought a factory new guitar from a store since ~2008. If I were to buy a new instrument it would probably be from Sweetwater, but much like cars I’ll probably never buy new again.

Slight veer from original post

@GAD , Like GAD, I have purchased very few new guitars from a store. Of the over 60 guitars I have owned, I can think of 4 that I bought new at a store. I came to love buying used and enjoyed doing the cleaning and tweaking and repairing and setting it up to play the way I like it, making a project out of it.

 

[adorshki]

Bit of a veer, but are you suggesting that the Westerly Collection guitars are significantly more expensive to refret? If so, I'm curious why that is - poly finish on the neck?

No, wasn't thinking of the poly finish but that's a very good and possibly relevant point. After-the-fact touch up would be problematic.
But was actually thinking of all the 299-399 "Beginner" guitars out there, that when it comes time to refret, the refret is gonna be a minimum of $200 depending on where you live and how "complete" the job is. Even close to 4 here in San Jose now for a complete job including planing board, leveling, saddle (usually needed if refretting just cause it'll be somewhat notched by now), set up, and a follow-up for fine adjustment if needed.

So why bother when a brand new axe is only $100 more, if that? Except that it's gonna be another ho-hum instrument with potential probs of its own, and it's disposable. Offends my sensibilities, on top of everything else.

Relevant to my interests as I've got two of them (no major issues so far!), one of which I play enough that it's going to need a refret sooner or later.

Except for that possible issue dealing with the poly finish, I wouldn't expect any problems actually getting the work done.

 

[GGJaguar]

and it's disposable.

That's a sin and a crime against guitar lovers.

 

[adorshki]

That's a sin and a crime against guitar lovers.

My point exactly.

Fender isn't responding to rumors of solicitations of proposals to packaging manufacturers:
Is a blister pack for 3 Stratocaster-sized guitars feasible?

 

[Neal]

I own a Gibson L-00 that was made in 1934 and retailed for $27.50 (case not included).

In today’s money, that’s $639, basically what PacRim guitars are selling for now.

Except the L-00 is a beautifully crafted, hand-made instrument, which will still be producing incredible tones with minimal maintenance in another 90 years.

 

[adorshki]

I own a Gibson L-00 that was made in 1934 and retailed for $27.50 (case not included).

In today’s money, that’s $639, basically what PacRim guitars are selling for now.

Except the L-00 is a beautifully crafted, hand-made instrument, which will still be producing incredible tones with minimal maintenance in another 90 years.

The difference between then and now. Materials and pride of craftsmanship.

 

[chazmo]

I intended this thread to gather information about a particular guitar construction detail. Asked and answered.

I have never seen or heard of a USA-built, Canadian-built, Mexican-built, or European-built acoustic guitar with a bridge "joined" this way to the finish of the body, but hey cheapo guitars used to have screwed on bridges once upon a time. Personally, I don't think gluing a bridge to a finished body is an acceptable practice, particularly for a Guild, but several of you have argued that it is what it is because of economics. That's of course valid and true.

Anyway, please, enough about "those were the good ole days," or posting nonsensical innuendo about pride of craftsmanship.

 

[Walter Broes]

Personally, I don't think gluing a bridge to a finished body is an acceptable practice, particularly for a Guild, but several of you have argued that it is what it is because of economics.

I get what you're saying in the post I'm partially quoting. And not to beat a dead horse, but I think it cheapens the Guild brand name - but it's what pretty much every guitar company except Gibson is doing now. I don't see why there has to be a $500 Guild - call them Madeira's if you want that market. But then I've played/seen plenty of Martins too I felt exactly the same about.

 

[bobouz]

Sorry if I’m repeating what’s already been said (since I don’t have the patience to read the whole thread), but…. Gluing the bridge directly to the finish on a flattop is about as obvious of a dumbed-down shortcut as there is - and imho, totally unacceptable. Sad to see the Guild name on these guitars.

 

[WaltW]

4 successions and you can have 20 heap guitars.

Bonfire? I've had a few over the decades that lighting them up might have made an improvement! PIRO