Train wreck F-20

[spoox]

I still think there is an untold story here beyond the "thief kicked in the top", as in guitar got smashed in an argument, somebody sat on the guitar, etc.

GUILD..."Made to be Flayed"

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Just a quick progress note…the F-20 is at Steve’s AND I found a supply of over 150 Westerly made Guild tops! Having one selected and sent to him.

 

[adorshki]

Just a quick progress note…the F-20 is at Steve’s AND I found a supply of over 150 Westerly made Guild tops! Having one selected and sent to him.

Great news, but all of a sudden it hit me: How do you know they're "real"?

Not to rain you parade but we've seen stuff passed off as leftover original parts over the years that actually weren't, or at least couldn't be positively verified as "genuine".

Also seems like kind of a large amount of tops, typically we see the "real" stuff in small batches of maybe 3 or 4.

But we do see genuine pieces show up, often from guys who used to work in Westerly or maybe acquired stuff when it was closing own, so "anything's possible".

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Great news, but all of a sudden it hit me: How do you know they're "real"?

Not to rain you parade but we've seen stuff passed off as leftover original parts over the years that actually weren't, or at least couldn't be positively verified as "genuine".

Also seems like kind of a large amount of tops, typically we see the "real" stuff in small batches of maybe 3 or 4.

But we do see genuine pieces show up, often from guys who used to work in Westerly or maybe acquired stuff when it was closing own, so "anything's possible".

I’m confident that they are real due to the source. They are in the hands of a well respected and known luthier and while I don’t know the entire story, I know that he contacted Guild about them buying the tops for use. They declined, and they will be used on special orders. So while I don’t have 100% certainty, the quality of the person, his company, and the fact that he put this info out on social media, makes me feel pretty good about them being genuine.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

First progress pic from Steve.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Ooooh! Keep 'em coming!

 

[davismanLV]

What he ^^^ said!!!

 

[Andrew79]

I'm looking forward to this one.....

 

[Br1ck]

The best guitar I ever played was a 39 J 35 in much worse condition when it came into the shop in a cardboard box. I should have followed my heart with that one, but I had a $3500 budget and it was still a $7500 guitar.

 

[kostask]

Those 1930s J-35s were something. The greatest guitar I have ever heard was a 1934 J-35. I still have never heard a guitar with better tone, no matter how high end a factory guitar, or how carefully a hand built guitar was put together. And it was beat to hell, but most of the sunburst were still there, and Gibson's sunbursts of that time were possibly the best ever.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Those 1930s J-35s were something. The greatest guitar I have ever heard was a 1934 J-35. I still have never heard a guitar with better tone, no matter how high end a factory guitar, or how carefully a hand built guitar was put together. And it was beat to hell, but most of the sunburst were still there, and Gibson's sunbursts of that time were possibly the best ever.

Yeah 30’s Gibson sunbursts are tough to beat.

 

[chazmo]

Guildy, nice to see some progress! As the others said, keep the pix coming.

I think that Guildy's luthier cut the top off. Is it possible to heat the top of a little at a time so it can be separated without destroying the original kerfing? I'm just wondering what the process normally is for doing this kind of surgery on the sound box.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Guildy, nice to see some progress! As the others said, keep the pix coming.

I think that Guildy's luthier cut the top off. Is it possible to heat the top of a little at a time so it can be separated without destroying the original kerfing? I'm just wondering what the process normally is for doing this kind of surgery on the sound box.

A lot of the kerfing was already damaged and he said it is softwood anyway. It will be replaced with mahogany kerfing which according to him will be stronger and allow for better transfer of vibrations from the top. As for what the process is normally? I don’t know. I think he may have chosen speed over preserving the original kerfing since he planned to replaced it all anyway.

 

[donnylang]

Is the idea of this kind of project to basically build a half-new guitar from a damaged old one? I ask because to me personally, the appeal of a vintage guitar is ... the vintage-ness of it. I can't think of an exception where I would prefer a replacement part if the old part was serviceable. Except strings, maybe

 

[chazmo]

A lot of the kerfing was already damaged and he said it is softwood anyway. It will be replaced with mahogany kerfing which according to him will be stronger and allow for better transfer of vibrations from the top. As for what the process is normally? I don’t know. I think he may have chosen speed over preserving the original kerfing since he planned to replaced it all anyway.

Interesting! Yeah, I can see that a lot of the original kerfing was already destroyed.

As for Donny's question, that's a really good one. Saving that top is going to be tough. Keep us posted, Guildy.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Interesting! Yeah, I can see that a lot of the original kerfing was already destroyed.

As for Donny's question, that's a really good one. Saving that top is going to be tough. Keep us posted, Guildy.

I was able to find a source that has a pile of Guild tops probably from the 90’s. So while not period correct, at least aged a bit and actually from Guild. The plan was never to try to save the original top.

 

[davismanLV]

Yeah, saving a top like that it an incredible amount of work and replacing it is wise and efficient. Great that you have a source of old Guild tops. I have a small stash of old Gibson soundboards from the 60's. They're all bookmatched and glued and old as can be. They're on the smallish side, but if someone needed one I'm sure we could part with one or two. Or more.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Yeah, saving a top like that it an incredible amount of work and replacing it is wise and efficient. Great that you have a source of old Guild tops. I have a small stash of old Gibson soundboards from the 60's. They're all bookmatched and glued and old as can be. They're on the smallish side, but if someone needed one I'm sure we could part with one or two. Or more.

Hmmm…intrigued by the potential of a “Guildson”…

 

[kostask]

A lot of the kerfing was already damaged and he said it is softwood anyway. It will be replaced with mahogany kerfing which according to him will be stronger and allow for better transfer of vibrations from the top. As for what the process is normally? I don’t know. I think he may have chosen speed over preserving the original kerfing since he planned to replaced it all anyway.

Step 1 was to remove the binding. Step 2 was to start working a pallette knife between the top and the kerfing slowly, all around the top, gently prying or pushing the knife along. During the prying is when some of the kerfing broke loose. Keep working the knife along until the entire top was off.

All said and done, the best would be for the guitar to be re-topped. The missing wood can be put back, but to what end? There is so much missing that there will be an impact on tone, and if you really want to make sure that the guitar sounds as close as possible to the original tone, just take all of the bracing and the bridge plate, and move it to the new top, keeping the exact position.

 

[GuildyAsHell]

Rebuilding the end block before starting side repair.