Reading through the posts I might start to think that you are all somewhat biased in your opinions, if not downright bigoted. My first 12 string was a framus, back in the sixties. then a nice martin d 20 12 if memory serves. In the 70s I Started paying attention to the Guild 12s and it was 1980 when I was able to think about getting one, you know the budget. Well I picked one up, at a music store, and it was 'the' one. I was able to put a couple of hundred down, and finance it thru the store. I still have it, it still sounds like a harpsichord, and has looks to turn heads (F 50 512 R NT) So its not without some background, that I am in full agreement that the Guild line wrote the book about everything a 12 should be, and can be, cause they did it. These beauties will always I believe be in a class of their own with very few rivals. As the tonewoods become more scarce, these will shine as diamonds in the used market for 12 strings, And people will still buy a very nice Taylor or other 12, if they aren't able to find an available Guild. Gees, I sound a little biased, but I still haven't found a 12 that I like more than mine, but its only been 28 years. Right? :lol: Steffan