Old beaters that are unplayable, for my wall

fronobulax

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plaidseason said:
The only "subs" I knew about as a kid were being made in boatyard in southeastern, CT.
-Chris
In the 1960's there was a chain of sandwich shops (well, at least two stores that I can recall) in the Schenectady NY area called Mike's Subs. We knew they were not competing with Electric Boat :) and no one ever asked for a grinder within my hearing.
 

plaidseason

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fronobulax said:
plaidseason said:
The only "subs" I knew about as a kid were being made in boatyard in southeastern, CT.
-Chris
In the 1960's there was a chain of sandwich shops (well, at least two stores that I can recall) in the Schenectady NY area called Mike's Subs. We knew they were not competing with Electric Boat :) and no one ever asked for a grinder within my hearing.

I was only speaking with regard my local (South Central/Eastern CT, and related areas). I firmly support the tradition usage of sub, hogie, etc. in regions where those terms apply. And Subway which was founded in Milford, CT obviously ran with a less regionalized term.

But when my friends and I were out crabbing, or digging for quahogs, we always ordered grinders Saldamarcos.

-Chris
 

fronobulax

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plaidseason said:
I was only speaking with regard my local (South Central/Eastern CT, and related areas). I firmly support the tradition usage of sub, hogie, etc. in regions where those terms apply. And Subway which was founded in Milford, CT obviously ran with a less regionalized term.

[url=http://www.subway.com/StudentGuide/faq.htm said:
SUBWAY[/url]]The SUBWAY® restaurant chain was founded in 1965 by Fred DeLuca, a 17-year-old college freshman, and family friend Dr. Peter Buck. The first restaurant opened in Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA on August 28 and was called Pete’s Super Submarines.

I wonder where Fred grew up or whether this is just a case of Bridgeport looking West for inspiration?

I'm reminded of the regional differences concerning carbonated soft drinks. "soda" was the generic term I learned. I had friends and cousins who used "pop" or "soda pop". And I know lots of people who think "coke" is a generic term when referring to a beverage.

Talk about veer!

I like the folks who hang their playable guitars on the wall but if you can't play it, you either decorate with it or burn it for heat.
 

Pike

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I like the folks who hang their playable guitars on the wall
Here's a few of mine hanging around, I play 'em all, plus some.

P4070003.jpg
 

nutmegger1957

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WorkedinWesterly (et al):

Knowing how you feel about what Guild/Fender did to your job, I don't want to dimish the reality of your pain over it. Certainly you must have devoted a ton of energy and poured a lot of yourself into what you did, because that's your way. I've always known you to give 110% in all you did.
Having said that, allow me a chance to put into words what you and I both know as reality, for the sake of conversation, and nothing more:

1) When the Unions were formed in the 20's & 30's the typical work environment was really in need of reconstitution. Unsafe conditions, ......dirty conditions,.......long work weeks,.........lousy pay....no medical benefits......all of that and more.

2) The Unions made a way for the rest of us, for reasonable work hours, benefits, safety, and we are forever in their debt for having done so. Taking a stand so that we would not have to go through what they did. I respect that, and appreciate it.

3) Over the years the Union shops have set the bar for other companies, Union and non-Union alike. The wages negotiated for were constantly on the rise above the more moderate street wages, (I worked for Pratt & Whitney for 10 years, and went through a number of strikes and so forth). It got to a point where the companies could no longer afford to pay the benefit packages and payroll without having serious shortfalls in their operating budgets.

4) Along comes NAFTA, (with Ross Perot and his pointer as advocate) and suddenly employers are being allowed to look outside our boarders for some lower wage options, and they did. No employer (including the one I currently work for, that has sent me to Mexico and China where we have satelite companies) who has had to explore out-of-country options has been happy about it and yet the savings were too tempting for them to ignore.

5) The downside of out-of-country work is the lack of jobs here, and I appreciate the significance of that fully. It is an unfortunate part of NAFTA. I am as upset about that as the next guy/gal.

6) As for the quality of workmanship of product "out-of-country," it is dependant on what country being discussed. My observations as an Auditor of Process in these out-of-country locations are varied. In the case of Mexico, they didn't "take ownership" of the product, and generally it was reflected in the lack of quality of the product coming out of there. We (in our case) pulled our product out of Mexico and brought it back home. Not so, the China plant that I've been to (was there for 9 days in Shanghai). What I saw there were workers who knew that there were 10,000 other bodies who could take their place, and were meticulous in their work because of it. The "boss" could walk by, and if he saw you picking your nose, could fire you.

7) "Out-of-Country" locations are under certain restrictions,......such as who provides the material, and what Quality Control measures are in place. In our case, the materials used on our product there are sent to them by us, (also some local suppliers are used, but only after they have passed rigorous review by us), and the QC procedures and AQL (Acceptable Quality Limits) are established by us.

8.) In spite of how I feel about keeping jobs here, I recognize as I'm sure you do, that companies were forced to seek reductions in how much they spent to keep their plants open, and it was primarily the Health Care and Wage concessions that brought this about. Certainly we need good Health Care, and Health Care itself is partly to blame for not having done what they could to keep the costs down, but that was controlled by litigation insurance for physicians who were being sued left and right.

9) Guitars, (Guild, Yamaha, whomever) are just another product that fits within this same situation. I've seen the quality that comes from there and have played the $30,000.00 Gibsons from the States and not found much difference (speaking as a novice guitar player, of course,.........I can't match your expertise on the instrument or knowledge of it's creation. I bow, as I always have, to your superior experience and knowledge in this). in the way it sounded or played.

10) I'm thankful that Fender brought Guild to California, and now back to the North East. Mostly because it keeps American workers working. But I'm not adverse to what is coming in from other places. Would I like to see all manufacturing brought back to the States? You bet! Do I believe that's a realistic hope? No. Not as long as the Unions keep draining the coffers dry in major corporations, and not as long as litigation rules the Insurance world, which in turn, rules the Health Care costs.

I'm sure there are subtle ways that you, as an experienced person, can determine the inferiority of the mid-range priced guitars, but for the average joe player like me, they don't impede my ability to love to play.
The instruments that are not domestic may not be what would have been wanted. Heck, if we could have achieved a domestically-made guitar for the price of the mid-range instruments from China, with all the quality expected, .........that's the optimum situation......don't you agree?
 

plaidseason

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Nutmegger 1957 - that was well-stated.

One thing that drives me crazy is the notion that cost of compensating American workers is the culprit. No one ever argues that ridiculous executive salaries and bonuses are to blame. In a country where more than 60% of the wealth belongs to 10% of the population we sure do complain a lot about the damage supposedly done by the working class. Blame the FDA, big pharma, and the healthcare (aka the "sick care") industry for creating a profit driven monstrosity - don't blame the guy/girl who's expecting regular physicals and dental checkups. He/she's not the one inflating the cost.

I don't want to turn this into a big rant - but the game is rigged against the working class and that's just wrong.

-Chris
 

workedinwesterly

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wow....
this thread sure went a long way from a guy looking for junk to hang on his wall !
 

Scratch

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Many agree that CEOs execs etc. are handsomely compensated and some/maybe most may not be worth their wealthy salt,;especially when it comes down to banking execs and the like who seem to enjoy the use of taxpayer dollars to fund selfish junkets. They drive me crazy... Then there's Bernie Madoff and R. Allen Stanford (a Texan, I'm ashamed to say) who in their own selfish interests bilked and bankrupted clients and those who trusted them for enormous personal gain. Both are enormous Dem contributors. Gov Blago is another embarrassing sign of the times who placed selfishness ahead of ethics. There are guilty republican contributors too; just not as many in today's headlines.

Where does it end? Heck I sure don't know, but when you place greed at any level ahead of personal integrity, personal responsibility, and trust, you have the ingredients for failure. We as taxpayers now pay the price for their catostrophic foolishness and selfish ways.

Until recently, America's free market system paved a road to success and recognition as the global economic giant. I can agree with limiting exec pay for those corporate CEOs who seek federal bailouts because their inept management and leadership practices brought us to the brink. To stretch executive compensation limits beyond them to all of corporate America is wrong IMO unless we're willing to limit sports/hollywood 'heroes (etc.) to the same. Heck, Terrell Owens has a hard enough time as it is catching the football for $7M per year. Capped at 500K, he couldn't catch a cold...

I was raised in a pro Union home, the son of a labor leader. I'll give credit where credit is due in that unions had their place in history. Union workers like my dad were some of the hardest workers in our nation's past. They're no less at fault; however, for selfishly contributing to this economic mess. Somehow, we must all understand that we are each obligated in one way or another to get us out of this mess. It took personal greed at all levels to get us here; it will take personal sacrifice to get us out of it...

This post is, today, worth much less than 2 cents...
 

plaidseason

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No party politics - there's plenty of corruption to cover us on both sides.

I'm not saying we should limit executive pay, I'm just saying until recently hardly anyone cared about excessive exec pay. But plenty of people love that tagline about how "unions used to be good, but now they are bad." It's kind of like how everyone complains about illegal immigrants but hardly anyone ever suggests going after the companies that hire them. The people who do the work, who produce the products, who deliver the products, who stock the products, etc, deserve fair wages, and comprehensive health benefits. That's all I'm saying.
 

randall64

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I was just trying to get everybody going. It's been quiet on here. I like the GAD a lot and I am still very impressed but one of the best things I have ever done was walk into Ross Music in Westerly, RI in 1990 and trading my Epiphone for a brand new D40 which I still love to this day. I admit the asians can make a nice guitar but they will never make one that gives me the feeling I had that day and ever since about a musical instrument. Wives and girlfriends have come along but my D40 always stays. Thank you Guild of Westerly!
 

Default

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On the Magnatone/Valco list, a poster went on a long rant about unions. I dug around and discovered that the average Chinese industrial worker was paid $1200 a year. You can't blame unions for being unable to compete with that pittance. My boys made almost that much working at Scout camp, last year.
No one can compete with that.


OTOH, we have no melamine in our milk.
 

danerectal

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nutmegger1957 said:
Certainly we need good Health Care, and Health Care itself is partly to blame for not having done what they could to keep the costs down, but that was controlled by litigation insurance for physicians who were being sued left and right.

Not to be unreasonable, but don't people that aren't American need health care too? Personally, I question the ethics involved in dodging obligations to their employees by finding employees where they can get by without fair compensation. If the product is supposedly of comparable value (an assumption to which I cannot adhere), why is it fair to offer less for the same job? Oddly enough Cambodia is leading underdeveloped countries in labor standards. This is true to the point where Cambodian factories are hardly even viable while maintaining current profit margins. Talk about irony.
 

killdeer43

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JerryR said:
Congratulations guys on a very successful thread veer - to be entered in the 'veer of the week' competition :mrgreen:

Actually, I see this one leading the charge for 'Veer of the Year' honors! Wow!
I was sitting here minding my own business and contemplating 'wall hangers' and, out of the blue, I thought I had wandered onto some politico web site. I did have a little bout of vertigo this morning and thought for sure I had inadvertantly drifted off course. :?

Let's see, where was that Guild site, anyway?
Joe
:)
 
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