NGD - F50R 74 or 75

[Nokomite]

This came up in another thread, but I feel it's appropriate to re-post it here:
Don't think that the binding on Nokomite's guitar was replaced with ebony strips. With what I can see in the photos that were posted in Nokomite's thread, I believe that the bottom part of the groove, which is very narrow at that particular spot, was simply removed ........ sanded, chiseled or scraped away; at least that's what the photos that Nokomite posted, tell me. I may be wrong, but it would be very easy to check by measuring the actual width of the neck, which would be narrower now if my theory is correct.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

I will try to get measurements and photos later today, as I finally have a break. But I think you are 100% correct, Hans, about what happened with this guitar, and the pictures of the binding on Kostask's F50R were revealing as to what may have happened here. The person whom I bought it from did say he performed some "neck work" on it--said it was not a reset, but he disavowed anything to do with working on the binding. I think he was telling me a half truth. It does look like the binding "shelf" was removed and the neck refinished. Regardless I am happy with the guitar, I got it at a fair price for the condition, the important parts are in great shape with no cracks or other problems. I'm mostly concerned with having a good player, which it is.

OK, so here's an off the wall question: Could this neck be retooled to recreate a new ledge, and new neck binding put in place? Not that I think it's something I'd pursue, but just wondering if it is theoretically possible. I'm thinking that the existing neck width would work fine for me so I wouldn't mind this. It may just be more money and trouble than worth, and if I wanted a more original model, then just wait until another one comes up for sale.

 

[HeyMikey]

I would not try to add binding back. If it plays well, is comfortable, and you like the sound then forget about it and just enjoy it. It’s a terrific guitar!

 

[chazmo]

^ What HeyMikey said..

 

[adorshki]

^ What HeyMikey said..

And what Chazmo said. Anybody else?

 

[marius]

If someone did what I think was done then he (or she) removed the ledge from the neck; there never was a ledge on the fingerboard extension. The binding is just glued against the side of that part of the fingerboard. That means you will now see a piece of soundboard next to the fingerboard that was first covered by the neck binding and consequently the pickguard will not be flush against the side of the fingerboard.

That occurred to me shortly after posting but then I would have expected to see unfinished top wood under the removed binding. Then again if you’re going to the trouble to reshape and refinish the neck I guess finish the exposed top isn’t a stretch.

And what Chazmo said. Anybody else?

What Al said

 

[adorshki]

I will try to get measurements and photos later today, as I finally have a break.

OK, so here's an off the wall question: Could this neck be retooled to recreate a new ledge, and new neck binding put in place? Not that I think it's something I'd pursue, but just wondering if it is theoretically possible. I'm thinking that the existing neck width would work fine for me so I wouldn't mind this. It may just be more money and trouble than worth, and if I wanted a more original model, then just wait until another one comes up for sale.

After all the unraveling of the mystery, I wonder if it was done simply to achieve a narrower neck. Did you get a chance to measure the nut width yet?

 

[bobouz]

Easier to refret without the binding!

 

[kostask]

I will try to get measurements and photos later today, as I finally have a break. But I think you are 100% correct, Hans, about what happened with this guitar, and the pictures of the binding on Kostask's F50R were revealing as to what may have happened here. The person whom I bought it from did say he performed some "neck work" on it--said it was not a reset, but he disavowed anything to do with working on the binding. I think he was telling me a half truth. It does look like the binding "shelf" was removed and the neck refinished. Regardless I am happy with the guitar, I got it at a fair price for the condition, the important parts are in great shape with no cracks or other problems. I'm mostly concerned with having a good player, which it is.

OK, so here's an off the wall question: Could this neck be retooled to recreate a new ledge, and new neck binding put in place? Not that I think it's something I'd pursue, but just wondering if it is theoretically possible. I'm thinking that the existing neck width would work fine for me so I wouldn't mind this. It may just be more money and trouble than worth, and if I wanted a more original model, then just wait until another one comes up for sale.

In theory, yes. To be honest, I don't think it would ever be practical. It would entail removing the finish on the neck, cutting some mahogany and gluing to the sides of the neck, recarving the neck so that the binding channels/ledges were restored, re-carving the entire neck so that the new mahogany add-ons were integrated smoothly into the neck, refinishing the entire neck, and then re-binding it. Like I said, in theory possible, but why? If you are happy with the guitar, especially with the way it plays, there would not be any reason to take on that amount of expense. if not, sell it and get an F-50R with the neck binding in place. The neck operation I described will be expensive, as in the high hundreds of dollars, and in the end, would not increase the value of the guitar, when the logical thing to do is sell this one and get another guitar.

 

[Nokomite]

In theory, yes. To be honest, I don't think it would ever be practical. It would entail removing the finish on the neck, cutting some mahogany and gluing to the sides of the neck, recarving the neck so that the binding channels/ledges were restored, re-carving the entire neck so that the new mahogany add-ons were integrated smoothly into the neck, refinishing the entire neck, and then re-binding it. Like I said, in theory possible, but why? If you are happy with the guitar, especially with the way it plays, there would not be any reason to take on that amount of expense. if not, sell it and get an F-50R with the neck binding in place. The neck operation I described will be expensive, as in the high hundreds of dollars, and in the end, would not increase the value of the guitar, when the logical thing to do is sell this one and get another guitar.

Exactly what I thought, thank you.

 

[Nokomite]

F-50 nut width is 1-9/16" 12th fret is right at 2"
In comparison, the nut width on my bound '84 F-44 is 1-11/16"
Sounds like this corresponds to having the binding removed.
There is definitely a small gap between the pickguard and the neck on the F-50, whereas on my F-44 there is not. This picture hasn't loaded to iCloud yet.

 

[Nokomite]

This clearly shows binding was removed at some point.

 

[chazmo]

Well there you go Nokomite. Thanks for the pictures!

I'll guess that the neck was off the guitar at some point in its past, and the binding was removed. I'm not sure why anyone would do that, except maybe the binding was already damaged or it got damaged when the neck was taken off.

In any case, you have a beautiful slice of super hard ebony there for a fingerboard, and given the nature of ebony I wouldn't expect it to wear (overly), crack, dent, or cause you any trouble going forward. The ONLY question to ask yourself is whether you're comfortable fretting up and down the neck . There are plenty of unbound fretboards in the world, so that's really not the issue. And, if the fret ends are causing you trouble that can be fixed.

 

[Nokomite]

Well there you go Nokomite. Thanks for the pictures!

I'll guess that the neck was off the guitar at some point in its past, and the binding was removed. I'm not sure why anyone would do that, except maybe the binding was already damaged or it got damaged when the neck was taken off.

I'm wondering if someone attempted a refret and damaged the binding when doing that, and just decided to take it all off. It's a shame, but what's done is done, and thankfully it doesn't affect anything, really, except the resale value for someone who wants all original. But I think my price was fair for the condition overall.

I do love me a bound fretboard, but I can definitely live with this. My hand is small so the slightly narrower neck is actually an advantage for me. This neck is basically the same now as my Gibson B-25 nut width, which is the guitar I grew up with. I don't see myself parting with this one just because of cosmetics. Usually when I sell a good instrument it's only because the neck is too wide or thick for my hand and style.

 

[adorshki]

I'm wondering if someone attempted a refret and damaged the binding when doing that, and just decided to take it all off. It's a shame, but what's done is done, and thankfully it doesn't affect anything, really, except the resale value for someone who wants all original. But I think my price was fair for the condition overall.

If it was just damaged binding I'm sure it would have been cheaper overall to just replace it, rather than go to all the trouble of taking of the ledge down which must have involved re-finishing or at least touching up the neck.

I do love me a bound fretboard, but I can definitely live with this. My hand is small so the slightly narrower neck is actually an advantage for me. This neck is basically the same now as my Gibson B-25 nut width, which is the guitar I grew up with. I don't see myself parting with this one just because of cosmetics. Usually when I sell a good instrument it's only because the neck is too wide or thick for my hand and style.

Suspect that's the real reason all the trouble was taken to remove it, as mentioned earlier. What I like is that it looks like care was taken to make it look as "factory" as possible. Tasteful and classy.

 

[Nokomite]

If it was just damaged binding I'm sure it would have been cheaper overall to just replace it, rather than go to all the trouble of taking of the ledge down which must have involved re-finishing or at least touching up the neck.

Suspect that's the real reason all the trouble was taken to remove it, as mentioned earlier. What I like is that it looks like care was taken to make it look as "factory" as possible. Tasteful and classy.

He did do a pretty good job. I did have a conversation with him on the phone once I got it, but at the time I wasn't sure that there wasn't a version of the F-50 that had no binding at all. He was pretty elderly and hard of hearing when we spoke but a very nice person. His wife had used the guitar for a long time and they'd owned it for 35 years. I had asked prior to buying it if the neck had been reset and he said no, but when I spoke to his wife after I'd received it, she said he had "done a lot of work on the neck" without going into details. Since some of the frets were a little sharp I just assumed he'd refretted it and didn't bother polishing the highest frets. His wife said he was a luthier but he thought the back may be Brazilian rosewood, and didn't finish the frets or finesse the guitar where the binding had been, so maybe he wasn't as luthierly as he could have been. But I'm satisfied. They live out in the middle of Idaho, so maybe he had a lot of spare time to take the ledge down at his leisure.

So, basically my ignorance in not asking him specifically about the binding (he just told me prior to buying that it didn't have any, not that it once had it) but it all turned out right in the end. I could call him again and try to ask but I am not that concerned, it's pretty clear what happened and I think this is enough forensics for me at this point. If I want to play a bound neck, I'll just pick up my F-44.

 

[valleyguy]

Nice find, mind if I ask what you paid for it?