NGD - F50R 74 or 75

Nokomite

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Just arrived in very good condition, very clean, no cracks or notable problems, a few sharp frets and maybe action could be lowered a tiny bit. SN 120072. Seller said it was from 1974 but the SN looks like ‘75 to me. I can’t tell is this is Braz or East Indian rosewood, though didn’t Guild stop with the Braz by that date? The odd thing is it doesn’t have a bound fretboard, I’ve never seen a picture of this model without.

It is strung with mediums so I want to restring it before I can really judge it for my fingerstyle playing. I wish I was more excited about it but so far I am kind of underwhelmed about it compared to my F44. I was hoping for more bass response.

Here are pics.
 
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HeyMikey

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Congrats Nomomite! The pics aren’t showing up yet. I find that sometimes a guitar takes at least a few days or longer of playing to warm up, especially if it hasn’t been played for a while. Certainly new strings and getting accustom to the feel of it will help.
 

Nokomite

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Trying pics again…
 

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adorshki

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Just arrived in very good condition, very clean, no cracks or notable problems, a few sharp frets and maybe action could be lowered a tiny bit. SN 120072. Seller said it was from 1974 but the SN looks like ‘75 to me.
Congrats! Yep s/n looks like '75 alright.

I can’t tell is this is Braz or East Indian rosewood, though didn’t Guild stop with the Braz by that date? The odd thing is it doesn’t have a bound fretboard, I’ve never seen a picture of this model without.
For sure we've seen D50's with mixed EIR and Braz backs/sides as late as '73, but generally yes, think they were done using Braz in bodies by '75. They still had pieces suitable for necks and especially bridges right up into the mid-'80's though.

Re no binding on 'board, can think of 2 possibilities: special ordered that way, or removed during a re-fret. That could also explain "sharp frets" (Do you mean extending past edge of board?), something not common for Guild except when due to board shrinking from being too dry.

BUT: I'm wondering why end of 'board is "squared off", believe a '75 should be "radiused"or rounded as seen on this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332495396402

So suspect neck or fretboard at least's been worked on somehow.

It is strung with mediums so I want to restring it before I can really judge it for my fingerstyle playing. I wish I was more excited about it but so far I am kind of underwhelmed about it compared to my F44. I was hoping for more bass response.
Now that's about the opposite of what one usually hears about rosewood vs maple and especially since the F44's a smaller box (16" diameter). On the other hand, the '44's a Gruhn design and that may be evidence of just how good the design is.

Suspect the F50R was built to use mediums in '75 because they were going in to the "built like a tank" period, BUT in case it wasn't, it's possible the top is too tight when strung with mediums and could vibrate more freely with lights.

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences when re-stringing, and "happy hunting"! :)
 

geoguy

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Agree with all of the above, except the part about removing the binding during a refret. Maybe if the fretboard was also replaced, but that doesn't seem likely, given the fretboard inlays.

Congrats, Nokomite! Does the same s/n appear on the label and back of the headstock?
 

Nokomite

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Agree with all of the above, except the part about removing the binding during a refret. Maybe if the fretboard was also replaced, but that doesn't seem likely, given the fretboard inlays.

Congrats, Nokomite! Does the same s/n appear on the label and back of the headstock?
Yes, same number inside and impressed on the headstock back.
 

Nokomite

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Congrats! Yep s/n looks like '75 alright.


For sure we've seen D50's with mixed EIR and Braz backs/sides as late as '73, but generally yes, think they were done using Braz in bodies by '75. They still had pieces suitable for necks and especially bridges right up into the mid-'80's though.

Re no binding on 'board, can think of 2 possibilities: special ordered that way, or removed during a re-fret. That could also explain "sharp frets" (Do you mean extending past edge of board?), something not common for Guild except when due to board shrinking from being too dry.

BUT: I'm wondering why end of 'board is "squared off", believe a '75 should be "radiused"or rounded as seen on this link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332495396402

So suspect neck or fretboard at least's been worked on somehow.


Now that's about the opposite of what one usually hears about rosewood vs maple and especially since the F44's a smaller box (16" diameter). On the other hand, the '44's a Gruhn design and that may be evidence of just how good the design is.

Suspect the F50R was built to use mediums in '75 because they were going in to the "built like a tank" period, BUT in case it wasn't, it's possible the top is too tight when strung with mediums and could vibrate more freely with lights.

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences when re-stringing, and "happy hunting"! :)

The guy I bought it from is a luthier in Idaho and has owned it for 35 years. Said this is how he got it. He says he hasn’t done anything to it but a refret. I love bound fretboards so that was a little disappointing but it isn’t a big deal. The fret ends that are sharp are way up the neck, past 12th fret and most are past the junction of the body, so it isn’t a huge deal and an easy fix. There’s only one scratch on the front and one small ding on the back. It is SO CLEAN for its age.

Interesting about the rosewood leftover mixes being used by Guild through the 70s, it is possible the back is Braz and the sides are not, they look a little different. A friend of mine who is a high-end furniture guy says he thinks the back is Braz but I still am not sure. If it is, then I got a pretty good deal.

Restringing now. Will report back!
 

adorshki

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The guy I bought it from is a luthier in Idaho and has owned it for 35 years. Said this is how he got it. He says he hasn’t done anything to it but a refret.
As @geoguy said the inlays are what they're supposed to be, particularly the "railroad tracks" of the highest-end 'boards, so I wondered if perhaps the binding may have been damaged and thus "removed" (but not replaced) if not before but perhaps during a refret, a hazard with bound necks. Or maybe original owner just decided to "delete" it. :eek:

The squared-off end is the mystery detail to me. If no evidence of a neck reset or original presence of binding, what else could it be but "As built"? Why we loves our Guilds. :)


Interesting about the rosewood leftover mixes being used by Guild through the 70s, it is possible the back is Braz and the sides are not, they look a little different. A friend of mine who is a high-end furniture guy says he thinks the back is Braz but I still am not sure. If it is, then I got a pretty good deal.
I have learned that when it comes to Guild anything is possible, and I have wondered if towards the end there (of the Brazilian period) they might have reserved some of the dwindling stockpile of Braz for the flagship F50Rs and D55's. But using different flitches of wood for sides and back could account for the difference you see, even if "unmixed". (I'm ok with "mixed", btw, because they always used such great wood in the first place)
Restringing now. Will report back!
🍻
 

davismanLV

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If you took the binding off my Guilds (or any of my guitars with fretboard binding) it would be super noticeable!! That's routered out and if you take it away without replacing it with anything, you'd notice. Also, since as Al says there are not "racing stripes" like they did on the bound fretboards I'd say this is original and looks super nice. But I'm no expert, just a guy with tons of opinions, and I think it looks AMAZING!!! :love: Congrats, change the strings and give it a moment to acclimate from ID to FL, okay? It's a big change!!
 

Rambozo96

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If it helps my 1974 D-35 has a date stamp on one of the braces. Of course as I understand this isn’t a date of completion but would probably give better incite to when the guitar was made.
 

kostask

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if the missing binding was replaced with ebony cut to fit, there would be no ledge. Re-cutting the fret slots to the outer edges of the newly added ebony would not have been hard as you have the existing fret slots to act as a guide.

This may be factory, or it may have been a new fingerboard, with the inlays moved over from the old fingerboard, or new replacements put onto the new fingerboard. This seems more probable, as the square cut fingerboard end, and the wider fingerboard seem more indicative of a replacement. I think a factory fingerboard would still have the rounded fingerboard end. All of this is speculation on my part, of course, as we all know Guild had no issue deviating from the "norm".

What is the radius of the fingerboard? If it is different from the factory standard, it may indicate a fingerboard replacement. Can you detect any glue joints on the sides of the fingerboard (my or may not be visible, ebony to ebony glue joints, when well done, are very hard to detect)? Have there been any other F50Rs reported with square cut fingerboard ends or no fingerboard binding?
 

hansmoust

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That's a regular Guild F-50R from 1975 with a regular ebony fingerboard, two-tone inlays and extra w/b/w purfling lines along the edge of the fingerboard, but the neck binding has been removed and the neck re-worked on the side of the neck and that may be the reason why the fret ends are sharp!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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HeyMikey

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I find it odd a luthier owner would leave the fret ends sharp, especially after he did a refret. Knowing now the binding was removed sometime on the past, you might want to check the neck width and string spacing at the nut. As a fingerstyle player that might be important to you.
 

Nokomite

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I find it odd a luthier owner would leave the fret ends sharp, especially after he did a refret. Knowing now the binding was removed sometime on the past, you might want to check the neck width and string spacing at the nut. As a fingerstyle player that might be important to you.
I haven't measured it but it feels the same as my F44 neck as far as nut width and neck shape. That was the very first thing I checked! The nut width and neck shape of these old Guilds is one of the things that I love best about them, and prevents me from buying new Taylors (except for the GX Mini Koa, which I have and like very much), Martins, Collings, etc.
 

Nokomite

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That's a regular Guild F-50R from 1975 with a regular ebony fingerboard, two-tone inlays and extra w/b/w purfling lines along the edge of the fingerboard, but the neck binding has been removed and the neck re-worked on the side of the neck and that may be the reason why the fret ends are sharp!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
Very interesting, thanks Hans. This must all have happened before the previous owner got it. Only some of the highest (meaning >12th) fret ends are sharp, I can fix that myself. What do you think about the back, does it look like Brazilian rosewood to you?
 

chazmo

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Nokomite, that's a beauty. Welcome to the F-50R "club." I dare say that the F-50R is one of the finest 6-string guitars you'll ever play! I've had a couple of them myself over the years, and loved them. Yours looks like it's in great shape.

For the record, if different rosewood variants were used, it's far more likely that you'd find Brazilian on the sides than the back. I.e., I doubt that back is Brazilian.
 
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