Mark Guitar Rosettes, Decals or Inlays?

[Elderguilder]

I had replied to a "closed" post a day ago and with the kind reply from fronobulax to my addition I figured I should create a new Post to assist Search Engines and anyone seeking or supplying information on the Mark guitar rosettes.

fronobulax had offered that the catalog at https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1976-Catalog-Acoustic.pdf says "The classic rosette is a rich mosaic, expertly assembled by hand" so maybe the guess here, that the rosette is a decal is worthy of further research "

I hadn't come across that Catalog yet. That's one of the reasons I just joined this group. Looking at the rosette on my Mark II with a magnifying glass the composite pieces forming the rosette look a tad blurred making me think it is a decal, but that, I suppose, could be from the light refracting thru various layers of lacquer, or other factors. I recently watched a Youtube video of Making a Rosette for a classical guitar Part 1 ) and it was amazing! There are many cursory descriptions in Guild's Guitar Price Lists about the Mark's rosettes but until I saw this post, none had detailed their composition.

Do others have specifics about the various Mark guitar rosettes, and more importantly 8) the Mark II of 1977?
John

 

[Rambozo96]

On my MKII it looked like a sticker

 

[fronobulax]

The catalog has some ambiguity in my opinion about whether the statement applied to the entire Mark line and it was also a 1976 catalog so something may have changed.

Interesting question. Maybe someone else will get to check Han's book before I do.

 

[adorshki]

I had replied to a "closed" post a day ago and with the kind reply from fronobulax to my addition I figured I should create a new Post to assist Search Engines and anyone seeking or supplying information on the Mark guitar rosettes.

fronobulax had offered that the catalog at https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1976-Catalog-Acoustic.pdf says "The classic rosette is a rich mosaic, expertly assembled by hand" so maybe the guess here, that the rosette is a decal is worthy of further research "

I hadn't come across that Catalog yet. That's one of the reasons I just joined this group. Looking at the rosette on my Mark II with a magnifying glass the composite pieces forming the rosette look a tad blurred making me think it is a decal, but that, I suppose, could be from the light refracting thru various layers of lacquer, or other factors. I recently watched a Youtube video of Making a Rosette for a classical guitar Part 1 ) and it was amazing! There are many cursory descriptions in Guild's Guitar Price Lists about the Mark's rosettes but until I saw this post, none had detailed their composition.

Do others have specifics about the various Mark guitar rosettes, and more importantly 8) the Mark II of 1977?
John

Welcome aboard, Elderguilder! I can't believe it'd be a decal, don't think they ever used a decal for a rosette. The term "expertly assembled by hand" refers to marquetry, the traditional method of making those rosettes, as you discovered.

I note your Bluebookofguitarvalues page says "simple marquetry rosette" (my emphasis); point being, if it's real on the entry model they wouldn't cheap out with a decal as they moved up the scale.

Looking at the rosette on my Mark II with a magnifying glass the composite pieces forming the rosette look a tad blurred making me think it is a decal, but that, I suppose, could be from the light refracting thru various layers of lacquer, or other factors.

I think more likely the blurring is the result of the dyes on the individual wood pieces leaching out into the lacquer while it was still relatively "young". Lotta solvents in NCL which off-gasses as it ages, but when fresh, probably strong enough to leach some color over time.

 

[Elderguilder]

I think more likely the blurring is the result of the dyes on the individual wood pieces leaching out into the lacquer while it was still relatively "young". Lotta solvents in NCL which off-gasses as it ages, but when fresh, probably strong enough to leach some color over time.

Yeah, I se what you mean. The quality reputation Guild had especially in their first half of existence it would seem using inlaid rosettes would be the norm.

 

[adorshki]

Yeah, I se what you mean. The quality reputation Guild had especially in their first half of existence it would seem using inlaid rosettes would be the norm.

Sometimes it takes a while for stuff I already know (or sometimes think I know, lol!) to bubble back up to the surface, but here's another "tell":

The Mark series was Carlo Greco's godchild, named after his son. Greco came to Guild in the early '60's already versed in classical guitar construction, completely old school. From Argentina.

Greco was a master of inlay, and you'd never see a decal on a guitar he was responsible for.

And the leaching of dye (still a hypothesis on my part, but you get the principle, it's a distinct probability, I think) into the NCL?:
Sign of authenticity of original finish.

 

[Rambozo96]

Sometimes it takes a while for stuff I already know (or sometimes think I know, lol!) to bubble back up to the surface, but here's another "tell":

The Mark series was Carlo Greco's godchild, named after his son. Greco came to Guild in the early '60's already versed in classical guitar construction, completely old school. From Argentina.

Greco was a master of inlay, and you'd never see a decal on a guitar he was responsible for.

And the leaching of dye (still a hypothesis on my part, but you get the principle, it's a distinct probability, I think) into the NCL?:
Sign of authenticity of original finish.

I wonder if Carlo Greco having a hand in it was probably why that MKII I had was probably the only classical I actually liked

 

[adorshki]

I wonder if Carlo Greco having a hand in it was probably why that MKII I had was probably the only classical I actually liked

Great page on their bracing in the Guild Guitar book, can't remember if you have?

 

[Rambozo96]

Great page on their bracing in the Guild Guitar book, can't remember if you have?

The Guild book? No but I been meaning to. That was probably the only classical I owned that didn’t just go “plunk”.

 

[Sal]

Sorry guys but most Guild Mark 1s and 2s got decal rosettes. I do see a late 70s Mark II on Reverb right now with a different rosette but I can't be sure how it was made. These first two photos are the Mark I & II with decal rosettes.




1977 Guild Mark II

 

[SFIV1967]

I can't believe it'd be a decal, don't think they ever used a decal for a rosette.

See Sal's message above...

But one thing puzzles me on this Mark II below. Why is the bare wood exposed but the rosette seems to be not destroyed if it is a simple decal?




Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

The Mark series was named after Mark Dronge. There is an upthread post that could make that clearer. Han's book says the Mark series was the "brainchild" of Carlo Greco. I can't find any mention of rosettes except the Mark III, introduced in 1961 had a "Mexican floral motif around the soundhole".

 

[Sal]

But one thing puzzles me on this Mark II below. Why is the bare wood exposed but the rosette seems to be not destroyed if it is a simple decal?

Ralf

Guild might have used a decal, but it was a HIGH QUALITY decal!

 

[fronobulax]

Guild might have used a decal, but it was a HIGH QUALITY decal!

And if you even needed your Guild repaired by someone who usually worked on Gibsons, your instrument would be returned with the decal upside down.

 

[wileypickett]

Guild might have used a decal, but it was a HIGH QUALITY decal!

All his decals were hand-made.

 

[Elderguilder]

All his decals were hand-made.

Up until they made decals by CAD. ✍

 

[fronobulax]

Up until they made decals by CAD. ✍

But in New Hartford they only used machines when the machine could do better than working by hand so it should be a better decal

 

[chazmo]

Hey gang. This is my Mark VI Artist Special restored by Tom Jacobs and company. I do think this is a decal, not wood marquetry. But, I'm not sure. If you look at the edges next to the fretboard it appears like the soundboard wood is underneath. What do you think? I think the argument about Carlo Greco doing fancy rosette handwork here on the Marks is not borne out by reality.

 

[cupric]

Al Dronge: "Hey Carlo!!! Haven't seen you all day!!! What have you been up to?"

Carlo: "Inlaying rosette into my fine Mark classical guitar soundholes."

Al Dronge: "Use a f#$#%#g sticker!"

 

[Elderguilder]

"I love the smell of baking rosettes in the morning."