Help with D25 please

[roughdiamond]

Thnx adorshki

I feel like your the big brother I never had! Price wise I was thinking the same myself..Dubland heads can be a little nonchalant and fiery in an innocent disregard kind of way - and please Hans I meant no offence! I've just joined up and in such a short space of time I'm amazed and thrilled with all of your help - thnx kindly to all. In terms of neck I find my D28 a little to tight to wiggle in but I've tried 1 23/32 and 1 3/4 and was suprised that I didn't find it a great deal of difference that I thought it might be so I'll just have to try the neck for myself (I learnt my chops on a Japanese lawsuit 1 4/8). Guess I'll have to work out the dating and upgrade issues with himself 'as a factory collector purist' but I'm not a good liar!

I'm 6'1" and small feet so I'm guessing my glove size is medium but I do like my thumb sticking over!

 

[Ridgemont]

A couple of notes RD,

Like Al said, by US standards, 800 euros is way too expensive for a D25 even in excellent condition. My guess is that the supply of D25s in Euroland is low, hence the hike in price. It is not uncommon for American LTGers to score a great deal on a Guild and ship across the pond.....

Second, I think it is a mistake to trade/sell a D28 for a D25. Like others have said, the D25 is nice, but the D28 will continue to increase in value. Am I to understand that your D28 is 30 years old? If so, keep it! D25s are plentiful and a good deal will come along.

Finally, you mentioned you have a -15 series Martin, hence your newly found love affair with mahogany. I can relate to that. But, as a point of clarification, it does not have a bolt-on neck contrary to popular belief. Mortar-tenon neck joints are actual wood joints. It is like fitting a square peg into a square hole, unlike a dovetail which is slid together. The mortar-tenon joint is very different than a bolt-on neck you see on those pesky Taylors.

 

[Ridgemont]

Thnx adorshki

I feel like your the big brother I never had! Price wise I was thinking the same myself..Dubland heads can be a little nonchalant and fiery in an innocent disregard kind of way - and please Hans I meant no offence! I've just joined up and in such a short space of time I'm amazed and thrilled with all of your help - thnx kindly to all. In terms of neck I find my D28 a little to tight to wiggle in but I've tried 1 23/32 and 1 3/4 and was suprised that I didn't find it a great deal of difference that I thought it might be so I'll just have to try the neck for myself (I learnt my chops on a Japanese lawsuit 1 4/8). Guess I'll have to work out the dating and upgrade issues with himself 'as a factory collector purist' but I'm not a good liar!

I'm 6'1" and small feet so I'm guessing my glove size is medium but I do like my thumb sticking over!

RD,

I believe what they meant by neck size was neck profile. The nut width is the same on the D28 as it is on the D25. The difference is the thickness of the profile. If your Martin is 30 years old, it will have a full profile neck meaning it will have a thick C-cup shape to it. I do not know the neck profile of an '81 D25, but my '97 D25 has a neck profile very similar in feel to the -15 series Martins. Guild necks have had a bunch of variations throughout the years.

 

[adorshki]

Thnx adorshki
I feel like your the big brother I never had!

You're very kind. We're just tryin to raise the general tone of discourse around here.

I'm 6'1" and small feet so I'm guessing my glove size is medium but I do like my thumb sticking over!

Should be do-able. 1-11/16" nut. Richie Havens can hang his thumb over his '40's fretboard.
Maybe another small tip: I LIKE light gauge strings on mine, D'Addario EJ16 .012-.05 PB to be exact, and that's what they were shipped with from Westerly. My theory is that a lighter gauge allows more string travel when hit hard and therefore gives up nothing to mediums in volume but give excellent playability and dynamic range. If you wanna play 'em soft you can do that too. BUT that needs the stock Guild setup height which is 5.5-6.5/64ths at the 12th fret on the bass side and 4.5-5.5/64ths on the treble side.
I keep mine at 5 and 6 to avoid buzz on high frets or hard strumming. :wink:

 

[roughdiamond]

A couple of notes RD,

Like Al said, by US standards, 800 euros is way too expensive for a D25 even in excellent condition. My guess is that the supply of D25s in Euroland is low, hence the hike in price. It is not uncommon for American LTGers to score a great deal on a Guild and ship across the pond.....

Second, I think it is a mistake to trade/sell a D28 for a D25. Like others have said, the D25 is nice, but the D28 will continue to increase in value. Am I to understand that your D28 is 30 years old? If so, keep it! D25s are plentiful and a good deal will come along.

Finally, you mentioned you have a -15 series Martin, hence your newly found love affair with mahogany. I can relate to that. But, as a point of clarification, it does not have a bolt-on neck contrary to popular belief. Mortar-tenon neck joints are actual wood joints. It is like fitting a square peg into a square hole, unlike a dovetail which is slid together. The mortar-tenon joint is very different than a bolt-on neck you see on those pesky Taylors.

The D28 is about 5yrs old, I've had her for 3. It's in the workshop for the last 6 weeks 'under controlled conditions' and has settled down from the coldest stint in 50 years. She just went on me all of a sudden. Action dropped buzz everywhere. It was stored in the same place in case as usual when it happened? Anyway new saddle comming on with set up is gonna cost me 135 yoyo's. Have to do it. Frets are going low and will need re-fretting soon too. Another 200 yoyo's. Good a good deal just over half price on the D15 2009 discontinued model but she needs set up. What I was thinking in terms of neck joint is that it would be cheaper (if needed hoping not) to re-set mortise tenon than dovetail glued? Should've asked here first! 2nd hand Martins are cheaper over here (don't know why) unless their brazilian or something else rare special.

Anyway, the 28 is just not bonding with me. But I'm trying hard and I do love mahogany. 50's D18's are rare here so an honest guild might be a shot. But yeah 100% agree on keeping her.

 

[roughdiamond]

Thnx adorshki
I feel like your the big brother I never had!

You're very kind. We're just tryin to raise the general tone of discourse around here.

I'm 6'1" and small feet so I'm guessing my glove size is medium but I do like my thumb sticking over!

Should be do-able. 1-11/16" nut. Richie Havens can hang his thumb over his '40's fretboard.
Maybe another small tip: I LIKE light gauge strings on mine, D'Addario EJ16 .012-.05 PB to be exact, and that's what they were shipped with from Westerly. My theory is that a lighter gauge allows more string travel when hit hard and therefore gives up nothing to mediums in volume but give excellent playability and dynamic range. If you wanna play 'em soft you can do that too. BUT that needs the stock Guild setup height which is 5.5-6.5/64ths at the 12th fret on the bass side and 4.5-5.5/64ths on the treble side.
I keep mine at 5 and 6 to avoid buzz on high frets or hard strumming. :wink:

Cheers for the set up height have to write that down somewhere. I agree on the 12 guage PB on my Martin at least. Found the Martin SP best (a little brighter but suited it)but do not last longer than the D'add's. D'adds when settled in a little are nice. Let the top vibrate more or more overtones? The D15 has less sustain but the mids are thicker and the bass is deeper. Trebles are short and fat but I never cared much for Taylors if you now what I mean or even the standard D15Ce tone I played. Depth and bass overtone with mids ringing and high E defining is what I'm chasing?!

 

[Ridgemont]

I was just thinking RD, if you are 6'1" then you may want to look into an F20. :wink: Lots of hog tone on those puppies. And I believe some of the older ones have archbacks.

 

[poser]

My '81 D25 does not have open tuners. I can't imagine the factory changed from open back to closed from 1978 to 1981, but who knows. Anyone with a '78 D25 can add what tuners they have. Maybe they were replaced ...
.

I had to go check mine. Just for the record - my 1977 D25 does have open back tuners.

 

[roughdiamond]

I was just thinking RD, if you are 6'1" then you may want to look into an F20. :wink: Lots of hog tone on those puppies. And I believe some of the older ones have archbacks.

Could be a F150 for all I know! I just know dreads incl. Ditson shaped one. Flatpicker without the 'ass in blue' and Nashville tuning...

P.S. Tell me why Austin Texas has had some great songs written in it?

 

[kitniyatran]

... I'm hoping for a nice aging flatpicker D18 type that does not muddy up when attacked..../quote]
This part of your post sums up a big part of the D25 sound. I've described it before as like a D18 on steroids.

 

[ladytexan]

Howdy, Rough, from Texas.

I don't know how plentiful vintage Guilds are in Dublin, but taking into consideration the condition and your love of the sound of the D25, 800 EUR (approximately $1280 USD) isn't all that bad of a price. As the others have mentioned, it depends upon the condition of the guitar and the trustworthiness of the seller. But, it seems to be a fair price for the UK market.

I'm the original owner of my D25 and its full, warm sound is amazing. After I've played my Martins for a bit and then pick-up my D25...well, it's like "WOW".....it is much louder, fuller, and robust than the Martins.

Best of luck on your decision in buying the D25. Please share some pix when you can.

And, again, welcome to LTG,

Toni

 

[-ike-]

hi roughdiamond - welcome to LTG!

800 euros for a D25? is that incl. shipping?

well, if this guitar is in very good condition, it might be worth he price, even here in euro-country.
i am from germany and i recently bought a used D25 in "antique sunburst", which is the same colour as the one you like to buy. mine is from 2000, came with original case and was 540 euro - in excellent condition!

we all know that guitars will upgrade its value when they're getting older, assuming they will be in good condition and will be played well so they improve the way it sounds.

that said - and by reading some comments from other LGT members, i would never sell a Martin D28 to buy a D25 - but this is also your decision.

anyway, the D25 will be a loud and good sounding guitar (typical Guild-sound), that could be used for all styles of playing and all kinds of music (country, bluegrass,...)

good luck!

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Welcome, Rough. I know your brother Neil. I like this song about you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqgjCKm9nQ

Hatted Frau

 

[Ross]

No one has mentioned the date stamp on the neckblock. When you examine the guitar, take a small battery torch with you. On one of the bevelled corners of the neckblock, a date (DMY) will be stamped. This is not the date that the guitar was completed, but some time earlier, when the block and/or top was glued into place.

If you can show the seller an actual stamped date, it will remove any doubt about year of manufacture.

 

[Ridgemont]

P.S. Tell me why Austin Texas has had some great songs written in it?

Its a bit hippie, a bit country, but all soul! One of the most eclectic places you will ever see.

 

[adorshki]

No one has mentioned the date stamp on the neckblock. When you examine the guitar, take a small battery torch with you. On one of the bevelled corners of the neckblock, a date (DMY) will be stamped. This is not the date that the guitar was completed, but some time earlier, when the block and/or top was glued into place.
If you can show the seller an actual stamped date, it will remove any doubt about year of manufacture.

My foggy memory says this was not neccessarily consistent prcatice, but I could be wrong. IIRC they might also be found on top braces during the period in question. And yes, they were put there when the basic body had been completed but before finishing and QC. The bodies could actually sit around for quite a while, even more than a year, although that's probably unlikely with a model as popular as the D25, but the stamps are better indicators of "it can't be older than 19XX"
S/n is a better gauge of true "born on date" and model year.

 

[roughdiamond]

Howdy, Rough, from Texas.

I don't know how plentiful vintage Guilds are in Dublin, but taking into consideration the condition and your love of the sound of the D25, 800 EUR (approximately $1280 USD) isn't all that bad of a price. As the others have mentioned, it depends upon the condition of the guitar and the trustworthiness of the seller. But, it seems to be a fair price for the UK market.

I'm the original owner of my D25 and its full, warm sound is amazing. After I've played my Martins for a bit and then pick-up my D25...well, it's like "WOW".....it is much louder, fuller, and robust than the Martins.

Best of luck on your decision in buying the D25. Please share some pix when you

And, again, welcome to LTG,

Toni

Hi Texan lady

thnx for the all warm mahogany welcome. Your Guild sounds lovely. Still in decision process...sounds like you have expensive taste but I will try and have a pick on it hopefully soon.

Thnx

 

[roughdiamond]

hi roughdiamond - welcome to LTG!

800 euros for a D25? is that incl. shipping?

well, if this guitar is in very good condition, it might be worth he price, even here in euro-country.
i am from germany and i recently bought a used D25 in "antique sunburst", which is the same colour as the one you like to buy. mine is from 2000, came with original case and was 540 euro - in excellent condition!

we all know that guitars will upgrade its value when they're getting older, assuming they will be in good condition and will be played well so they improve the way it sounds.

that said - and by reading some comments from other LGT members, i would never sell a Martin D28 to buy a D25 - but this is also your decision.

anyway, the D25 will be a loud and good sounding guitar (typical Guild-sound), that could be used for all styles of playing and all kinds of music (country, bluegrass,...)

good luck!

Hi Ike

I'm happy to hear from someone geographically closer! Seems like your a happy D25 owner. I will try hold onto the D28 if I can deal more closer to your purchase price- The 28 has gotten a little out of proportion at this stage and perhaps I should not have mentioned it!

Thnx kindly for sharing your D25 experience with me.

 

[roughdiamond]

Welcome, Rough. I know your brother Neil. I like this song about you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqgjCKm9nQ

Hatted Frau

Hi Hatted

Sorry but I can't access your link - "This video contains content from EMI, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

Have to ask though just out of curiosity who and what song is it?

thnx

 

[roughdiamond]

No one has mentioned the date stamp on the neckblock. When you examine the guitar, take a small battery torch with you. On one of the bevelled corners of the neckblock, a date (DMY) will be stamped. This is not the date that the guitar was completed, but some time earlier, when the block and/or top was glued into place.

If you can show the seller an actual stamped date, it will remove any doubt about year of manufacture.

Hi Ross

you make an excellent point there thankyou! So like inside the box where a D28 serial no. stamp position would be? Would you know roughly what in timewise would be the diff in block set and final completion? I will definitely remember this one for more dealing ammo!

thnx kindly for that one