Considering the F20 due to shoulder woes....

[gjmalcyon]

Hey everyone, first post here.

Welcome! Stick around - nice bunch of folks around here.

 

[Americanelli]

Welcome! Stick around - nice bunch of folks around here.

Thanks, don't worry I will. Something about this D-20 is rreally speaking to me. Hope I can find a smaller body one I love just as well!

 

[tommym]

Hey everyone, first post here. So glad I came across the forum! I have a Guild D-20 that I love the sound of, but I am also finding that the body depth and size is a little much for me when sitting on the couch or just picking up for a quick play. Consequently, I've also been investigating the F-20/F-30 shapes to see if I can find a guitar that suits me better. I know I prefer the smaller nut-width of typical dreads, so unfortunately that puts the new M-20/M-40s out of contention. I see that some of you mentioned the F-30s varied in depth throughout the years - which years had the slimmer body depth? I've found that to be a huge factor in comfort for me.

Thanks!

I think aside from what I have listed below, you should be OK.

1. I would rule out the so called "mini jumbo" body from the early 1970s through the early 1980s as those have the deeper bodies.

2. I would also rule out the New Hartford F30 Standard and F30R Standard, as these models have the larger 1 3/4" nut and wider 2 5/32" string spacing at the bridge. Some (but not all) of the New Hartford limited / special editions fall into this category. New Hartford also made a F30 "Traditional" model which came with a 1 11/16" nut and 2 1/8" string spacing at the bridge, which might be more along the lines of what you are looking for.

3. GF25 and GF30 have a larger 16" deep lower bout.

I am sure others will come along with more input.

Tommy

 

[Americanelli]

1. I would rule out the so called "mini jumbo" body from the early 1970s through the early 1980s as those have the deeper bodies.

2. I would also rule out the New Hartford F30 Standard and F30R Standard, as these models have the larger 1 3/4" nut and wider 2 5/32" string spacing at the bridge. Some (but not all) of the New Hartford limited / special editions fall into this category. New Hartford also made a F30 "Traditional" model which came with a 1 11/16" nut and 2 1/8" string spacing at the bridge, which might be more along the lines of what you are looking for.

3. GF25 and GF30 have a larger 16" deep lower bout.

So to put it another way, what years of the F30 SHOULD I be looking at? I'm not sure how long this model ran for. If I had my druthers I'd want something more recent rather than more vintage, just to avoid a neck reset in my immediate future.

 

[tommym]

More recent? Probably from 2014 (New Hartford) on backwards to the mid 1980's. If any F30s were built at New Hartford, 2014 would have been the last year. There is nothing from Cordoba / Oxnard as far as U.S. built F30s go.

Tommy

 

[Americanelli]

Thanks @tommym , I'll start hunting for that vintage. I'm still considering F20s as well, but it will be my only acoustic so I'm not sure I want to go all the way to the single 0 size. On the other hand, I will be playing it really only on the couch/around the house for the most part, and maybe recording some with it so the 20s are definitely tempting!

 

[tommym]

I am 5'-7" and for couch potato duties, I find my F30 Standards too large. Even when I am jotting down guitar tabs, I find the F30s too large for me to reach over to reach the desk. Hence I may be looking at a Guild M40 sooner than later as a compliment to my F30s.

Tommy

 

[adorshki]

Have owned four F30s and a couple of F20s.
Personally found the F20s make my right shoulder uncomfortable
due to the small body size - I sit when I play, and tend to hunch over playing it, and
my right arm is positioned higher and closer to my shoulder at a more acute angle
than with a dread. Can start to feel it within a few minutes of playing, so
my remaining Westerly F20 is a goner, up for sale soon.
Better with F30s, but neither body style is as comfortable to me as a dread.

How tall are you?

 

[adorshki]

Hey everyone, first post here. So glad I came across the forum! I have a Guild D-20 that I love the sound of, but I am also finding that the body depth and size is a little much for me when sitting on the couch or just picking up for a quick play. Consequently, I've also been investigating the F-20/F-30 shapes to see if I can find a guitar that suits me better. I know I prefer the smaller nut-width of typical dreads, so unfortunately that puts the new M-20/M-40s out of contention. I see that some of you mentioned the F-30s varied in depth throughout the years - which years had the slimmer body depth? I've found that to be a huge factor in comfort for me.

Hey Americanelli, a belated Welcome Aboard! The body depth only varied by fractions of an inch no more than 1/2" between extremes, I think, so suspect that'll be a lesser issue than nut width as you mention. Got small hands myself, so I can relate.

I seem to recall New Hartfords were in the "thin" category, and their spec was 4-1/4" "tail depth" as shown here:

... but to me the difference was always negligible.

Now my F65ce for example, based on the traditional F40 outline, is only 3-1/8" deep (just measured it at the side of the upper bout, to be sure) and it's become my go-to for comfort over the last 4 years or so.

Took me a while to learn how to play it after years of dreadnoughts., it's as thin and almost as delicate as an electric!!

 

[adorshki]

So to put it another way, what years of the F30 SHOULD I be looking at? I'm not sure how long this model ran for.

Like, "always" with only a few intervals during which it wasn't, notably Corona '01-/04 and least once in early to mid '90's Westerly, and now Oxnard.

In Oxnard's case suspect it's because there's an MIC version, which coincidentally was also the case in Corona. The GAD30 was one of the earliest MIC models.

If I had my druthers I'd want something more recent rather than more vintage, just to avoid a neck reset in my immediate future.

Thinkin' a New Hartford F30 traditional may be just the ticket, if you want that 1-11/16 nut.

 

[beecee]

Is nut width and string spacing at the bridge critical to you? ....... The narrower nut and string spacing is no longer comfortable for the aging finger joints and wrists.

Tommy

Interesting...my experience is the opposite...can't play the 1 3/4. But I have short fat gnarly mitts now combined with aging joints too!

 

[Americanelli]

Hey Americanelli, a belated Welcome Aboard! The body depth only varied by fractions of an inch no more than 1/2" between extremes, I think, so suspect that'll be a lesser issue than nut width as you mention. Got small hands myself, so I can relate.

Thanks! Funnily enough, my hands are pretty big, but I've got long slim fingers so I guess the slimmer nut never bothered me much. Plus it's what I've gotten used to over the years as I'm primarily an electric player.

Now my F65ce for example, based on the traditional F40 outline, is only 3-1/8" deep (just measured it at the side of the upper bout, to be sure) and it's become my go-to for comfort over the last 4 years or so.

Took me a while to learn how to play it after years of dreadnoughts., it's as thin and almost as delicate as an electric!!

That super shallow depth is definitely interesting to me. Were there many Guilds with this depth other than the F65ce? If I could find something 15" or less wide at the lower bout with a nice thin body depth I'd be in heaven!

 

[Bonneville88]

Fwiw...

New Hartford F30 Standard, sold in late spring of this year.
1 3/4" nut, scale length 24 3/4".
Measured at the bottom of the guitar "tail depth" +/- 4 1/16".
Measured at the neck heel area, +/- 3 5/16".

 

[Americanelli]

Thanks, that definitely helps

 

[Bonneville88]

More fwiw....

'98 F30R (sold) next to an '80 F30 (for sale).
Tail depth on the '80 is 5".
Tail depth on the '98 may have been something just under 4" - may have been the most
shallow-bodied Guild acoustic I've owned.
As observed before - very different guitars that for reasons unknown share
the same model designate.

 

[adorshki]

Thanks! Funnily enough, my hands are pretty big, but I've got long slim fingers so I guess the slimmer nut never bothered me much. Plus it's what I've gotten used to over the years as I'm primarily an electric player.



That super shallow depth is definitely interesting to me. Were there many Guilds with this depth other than the F65ce?

Only a few others I know with true acoustic flattop construction, and all on the 16" lower bout jumbo shape.

One is the uber-rare Studio 24 (called the S-60 in this '86 catalog from our forum host GAD's site: https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1987-Catalog.pdf )

I consider that one to be a predecessor of the F65ce for body depth, also note they offered a 24-3/4" true 2-octave neck on that "S-60"and those early "Fxxce" models of which that F45ce was the first, but again, 4-1/2" deep.

That neck was spec'd with a 1-5/8 nut and I've never seen one wider although it's possible because every single neck in Westerly got final shaping by hand, as well as there being occasional examples of guitars getting wider nuts than spec, most commonly either 1-5/8 or 1-/3/4 on guitars spec'd with 1-11/16 nut.

Neck was aimed directly at electric players. The guitars were meant to feel like an electric but with true flattop sound.
Same thing applied to the "Slimline Acoustic (Prestige Series)" and GX's in the '90 catalog: https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1990-Catalog.pdf but those are 16" lower bouts, are both very rare, and now we're looking at guitars which may be in need of some serious maintenance soon, at that age.

That shortscale 24-fret neck was also standard on the first generation of F65ce's ca. '91-'94, and those were always 3-1/4" deep "give or take", as explained earlier. Visible ID for that neck is the dual dots at 24th fret, note also the companion models of the F65ce were 3-1/4" depth as shown in this collection of flyers from ca. '91-'92, pg 6 in the PDF version:

https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1992-Catalog-Acoustic.pdf

If I could find something 15" or less wide at the lower bout with a nice thin body depth I'd be in heaven!

Songbird, but those have bodies routed from solid chunk of 'hog with a traditional acoustic flattop. Not real loud unplugged, primarily intended for plugged-in or unplugged practice use:

https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1990-Catalog.pdf

Songbirds and F65ce's were built right up through close of Westerly in '01, so a late '90's example of either may be still young enough to be in good nick. F65ce's got a 25-5/8 scale neck with a 1-5/8 nut ca late '94, while Songbirds got a slightly deeper body to accommodate an updated Fishman system about same time, "IIRC". Fishman was Guild's standard OEM supplier on all those cutaway electric/acoustics, with the final "Pro-Blend" featuring both a soundhole mic and a UST with a slider to control the balance between the 2.

 

[Bonneville88]

Unless it's a fake - Corona-built S4CE (Songbird).
Have considered the possibility that this guitar may have been heavily modified or re-done,
but it looks legit. Sure is pretty.

Guild S4CE/0909 | Reverb

Songbird was produced at the Conona plant under the Fender umbrella.This model was designed by Dr. Ghuhn in the late 1980s.Matching the mahogany body of the hollow to spruce Top, cherry sunburst finish of satin is a beautiful model.The specifications of the pickup vary depending on the time of ye...

reverb.com

 

[Americanelli]

Wow thanks @adorshki that's a ton of great info. Love the links as well, haven't run across the GAD.net site before.

 

[walrus]

Unless it's a fake - Corona-built the S4CE (Songbird).
Have considered the possibility that this guitar may have been heavily modified or re-done,
but it looks legit. Sure is pretty.

Guild S4CE/0909 | Reverb

Songbird was produced at the Conona plant under the Fender umbrella.This model was designed by Dr. Ghuhn in the late 1980s.Matching the mahogany body of the hollow to spruce Top, cherry sunburst finish of satin is a beautiful model.The specifications of the pickup vary depending on the time of ye...

reverb.com

That is the prettiest Songbird I've ever seen...

walrus

 

[Bonneville88]

Walrus - me too! Think that may be the only Corona-labeled S4CE / Songbird I've
seen in recent memory.