Considering the F20 due to shoulder woes....

[Westerly Wood]

It's no that bad, really, but I think I might be nearing the point of looking at a smaller Guild acoustic body shape...
I know Walrus suggested to me the F30 so I would not lose so much tone and volume that I am accustomed to with the D25 and 35....

But what about the F20?

thanks!

 

[midnightright]

Sounds like it could be a good idea. I think of the F30 (or 000-18) as a great all purpose guitar for me. That is to say, that it does strumming and fingerstyle both equally well. It sits quite comfortable in one's lap as well. Perfectly, for me... I think that with the F20, the key would be to see if you're good with how hard or aggressive you can strum it (& not have it be, I forget the term people often use, "overdrive it?" - the top). . . The F20 I had was from the early 80's & had an arched back to it, as well as a long scale. Therefore, I didn't have too much trouble with it for strumming. That said, I'm about as far away from a bluegrass player (or even at times, folk) as one can get. These days, my back feels like it's getting more & more hunched by the minute. And so, a smaller sized body guitar is probably what I'm in store for.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Same issues - at some point I will not be able to get my arm over the JF4-12. When the shoulder is acting up, the F-47R (16" lower bout) and the Yammie FG-110 (approximately OOO-size) are my go-to's. The F-47R is almost indistinguishable from the rosewood dreadnoughts in my stable in terms of headroom for hard strumming and dynamics when picked or strummed.

 

[F312]

All my guitars are made in the USA, however, I had to buy "one" because I heard that the early GAD F20 were so good, I had to A B it to my NH F20. I bought a 2007 GAD F20 and can't believe how nice it is. The flamed maple binding is a nice touch. I don't know why the USA models don't have that feature. I have only seen three since I bought mine five years ago. They do pop up, but not very often, again I'm talking about the early ones. I paid $400.

Ralph

 

[walrus]

I found the F-20 to be too small for me. I'm pretty tall, it was uncomfortable trying to adjust to such a drastic drop in size from a dread. The F-30 size was a prefect fit. And, I also found the sound just a little too "toy guitarish". But
I am admittedly not a finger-picker, so that could be my playing, not the guitar!

walrus

 

[Bonneville88]

Have owned four F30s and a couple of F20s.
Personally found the F20s make my right shoulder uncomfortable
due to the small body size - I sit when I play, and tend to hunch over playing it, and
my right arm is positioned higher and closer to my shoulder at a more acute angle
than with a dread. Can start to feel it within a few minutes of playing, so
my remaining Westerly F20 is a goner, up for sale soon.
Better with F30s, but neither body style is as comfortable to me as a dread.
I didn't find my Hoboken or current Westerly F20 worked well for spirited open-chord strumming,
although both ok for light strumming, individual-note flatpicking and very good for fingerpicking.

 

[davismanLV]

I play sitting and smaller guitars are more comfortable for me. To date, no shoulder problems (knock wood) but for comfort I pick one of these or my Washburn acoustic electric which has a bigger outline but shallower than both of these. The Taylor is a Grand Concert size (short scale) which I believe is a tad bigger than the F20, and the Breedlove is their concert sized (long scale) and it's bigger than the Taylor. Breedlove is also deeper, but much more headroom. You can push the hell out of it and it's fine. There are smaller (outline and depth) guitars out there that may suit you and your style better than what Guild has to offer at this time. Not trying to sway you away from the Guild family but to find what I was looking for in smaller guitars, I had to look elsewhere and I've been very happy.

Sure would be good to have someone loan you an F20 and see how it suits before you buy. If you end up in Vegas, you can play these two, no problem. Good luck!!

Taylor GC-8 spruce/rosewood Breedlove Oregon Concert Rogue (the color) spruce/myrtlewood

 

[Westerly Wood]

thanks Tom. i sure wish i still had my 712, that is for sure.

 

[Br1ck]

I'm turning 70 this month, and have no shoulder issues from playing guitars. Trimming trees, yes, but I have only recently, five or six years, been playing dreads and maybe that is why. I own guitars down to 0 size and have come to appreciate them for what they are, not what they are not. If you are formulating your desires coming from the space of the classic dread sound, you are going to be disappointed. If you are willing to explore what a small guitar can do, you'll be more likely to have a good experience. My 00 15 12 fret custom is a fun guitar, not only for size, but for materials. It will do things my dreads won't.

I was playing a 00 18 Martin from the twenties a while back, strung with silk and steel tens. I thought it was sweet, and that is what I'll look for as my body deteriorates, and I'll be glad to explore what it can do. What you lose one place, you gain in another. I had a Martin M 36 for decades. It's the best all around guitar I've ever played, I just needed power. But it was comfortable.

 

[Westerly Wood]

that's good Brick! well said.

 

[mike1100]

If someone here can point me to a discussion on the ergonomics involved I would appreciate it. I foresee a wrist surgery in my future stemming from injuries outside music, but hope to avoid shoulder issues if possible.

Best of luck Woody.

 

[Westerly Wood]

If someone here can point me to a discussion on the ergonomics involved I would appreciate it. I foresee a wrist surgery in my future stemming from injuries outside music, but hope to avoid shoulder issues if possible.

Best of luck Woody.

thanks for chiming in Mike. I have had 2 surgeries on the little cartilage area of my left wrist, was unable to play guitar for like a year total.
Guilds do have really slick necks which helps for sure. my old D25 is more like an electric guitar neck. /the D35 is a tad thicker than that. I am sure Guild necks changed a lot over the eras.

 

[walrus]

For me, it came upon me sort of suddenly. The dread just started to make my shoulder sore after about 30 minutes. But my smaller electrics at the time did not. My '58 ES-225T has a 16" lower bout like my dread had, but because its a thin body, it's fine. The F-30 just sort of sits in my grasp more comfortably - hard to explain, it's just not pushing my arm "out" as much.

Not just the smaller lower bout, but the smaller body depth of the F-30 is perhaps a bigger factor for me. I ususally play standing up, but even sitting its fits nicely. I broke my right collarbone many years ago, I've also got osteoperosis, it is perhaps all catching up with me.

To look at them side by side, you can certainly tell! But I gotta say, the F-30 has plenty of volume, and sounds great! A joy to play!



walrus

 

[bobouz]

I like small bodied guitars & have owned many. That includes an F-20 with a flat back, which I purchased new around 1978. Sad to say, it never opened up & was sonically a disappointment. I fingerpick almost exclusively, and need a reasonably pronounced bass presence to achieve a balanced sound, but unfortunately that particular F-20 could not deliver.

Coming from your current D-body location, I would strongly recommend a 16” F-body shape as your investigative starting point. My 1974 Guild F-40 and 2012 Gibson J-185 (24.75” scale) fill that niche nicely, and their narrow waists make all the difference! As you can see below, the bodies are quite similar:

 

[Westerly Wood]

Interesting, so Bob your contention is the narrow waist of say an F47 would be better on shoulder than a dread as though the lower bouts are similar if not same, the middle section being slimmer would provide comfort?

Sorry, that sentence/question of mine is quite the ramble.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Thoughts on this one? I know it ain’t pretty but none of my Guilds have ever been accused of that.

Guild F-30 Aragon 1954 - 1973 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[gjmalcyon]

Interesting, so Bob your contention is the narrow waist of say an F47 would be better on shoulder than a dread as though the lower bouts are similar if not same, the middle section being slimmer would provide comfort?

Sorry, that sentence/question of mine is quite the ramble.

That's my reaction when I pick up my F-47R - it "feels smaller" than my dreads, or my F-40B.

 

[F312]

Make sure you try all three woods for the back and sides for the sound your looking for in a F20. Amplified, I think can get that F20 sounding bigger as well.

Ralph

 

[Rayk]

My 2 cents try out the F30's or thr Nh or earlier F40.
The slimmer body saves the shoulder.
These guutars will lose some bass depth but they make up for this in balance , fundamentals and the intricacies of the notes . They bring a more personal experience to your playing but that's just me .

Though I want a parlor type and F20 I know they will be lacking more of the fullness the bigger boys have.

Think of your open tuning fun recorded with all trebble .

 

[jfilm]

Shoulders are tricky, I'm currently dealing with something the doctor calls weightlifter's shoulder, which has been going on for nearly a year. Pretty frustrating. I do notice more shoulder fatigue and pain when playing a dread. I have an F20 and a D40, and think Br1ck's comment is pretty spot on- they do different things. I briefly owned an F30 and I think that's a happy medium for both sound and comfort if you're used to the dread sound, as others have mentioned.