The difference between models

mavuser said:

... I don't know what is going w Axls. Maybe they were trying to mute him altogether hahaa (who knows what they told him it was for! the guy is totally mental)

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From what I can tell, 1986-2006 Axl are quite different from each other. He's been on medications that have leveled him out, which is why his concerts start on time now and he seems to be a more "normal" person and it is the reason for his weight gain, too. Doesn't matter to me SLASH (and Izzy Stradlin) are Guns n roses as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry for the veer - I have to put in a word for Richard Fortus - awesome player and helluva nice guy - he drove out
to my little town and bought this cool D25 flat back I'd put up for sale on Craigslist in September.

Bonneville88 said:

Sorry for the veer - I have to put in a word for Richard Fortus - awesome player and helluva nice guy - he drove out
to my little town and bought this cool D25 flat back I'd put up for sale on Craigslist in September.

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thats super cool!!
Also I believe Guild in either Oxnard or NH made 2 guitars special for him, of which he chose one of the 2 to keep/tour with.

grmps said:

From what I can tell, 1986-2006 Axl are quite different from each other. He's been on medications that have leveled him out, which is why his concerts start on time now and he seems to be a more "normal" person and it is the reason for his weight gain, too. Doesn't matter to me SLASH (and Izzy Stradlin) are Guns n roses as far as I'm concerned.

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I don't have any problems w Axl Rose, and never claimed that I, myself, was not totally mental...still, to tell Axl in 1992 "we are going to unplug your guitar so it just looks like ur playing," would have surely launched off a few sparks. Also Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler are both heavily rumored to be returning to GNR in 2021 (New Zealand/Australia I believe will be the first to find out if the rumors are true!)

Bonneville88 said:

Sorry for the veer - I have to put in a word for Richard Fortus - awesome player and helluva nice guy - he drove out
to my little town and bought this cool D25 flat back I'd put up for sale on Craigslist in September.

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How cool is that? You put your guitar up on Craigslist and celebrity shows up to buy it!! Awesome story!

mavuser said:

I don't have any problems w Axl Rose, and never claimed that I, myself, was not totally mental...still, to tell Axl in 1992 "we are going to unplug your guitar so it just looks like ur playing," would have surely launched off a few sparks. Also Izzy Stradlin and Steven Adler are both heavily rumored to be returning to GNR in 2021 (New Zealand/Australia I believe will be the first to find out if the rumors are true!)

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I haven't heard that! but definitely welcome the return of Izzy. He was their chief song writer with Slash writing the solos and Axl the lyrics. I really believe the Axl Rose band (Also called GNR from 1995-2008?) didn't put out any albums because Izzy wasn't there to write if for him. So it took almost 20 years for Axl to write an album of his own using multiple musicians... and ultimately sounded like a linkin park ripoff. Don't get me wrong I like Chinese Democracy but I like it the way I like any other pop songs on the radio...


Edit: if you haven't checked out any of Izzy's solo material, I can strongly recommend "Ride On." I have all or most of all of his catalog and it's all solid stuff... Funny enough his first album Izzy stradlin and the JuJu hounds is probably the weakest offering...

grmps said:

I haven't heard that! but definitely welcome the return of Izzy.

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It was cool, and a little surreal I guess - we met up in a pavilion at the local park, he drove
up in a Prius - I'd brought several 70s era D25s so he could compare, we sat out there and
talked for 20 minutes or so and he tried all the '25s and took home the one he'd come for.
Just a low-key, friendly, very positive guy, and seemed genuinely excited to land this particular
D25. No pics, selfies or any of that bs - just two guys talking guitars and doing a deal on a nice day in
the park.

Bonneville88 said:

It was cool, and a little surreal I guess - we met up in a pavilion at the local park...

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Did you know who it was before he showed up?Or just "Some dude named Richard looking to buy my guitar..."?

Cowboy Junkies just postponed AU/NZ tours *another year, into 2022. Can only imagine GNR will be forced to do the same.

grmps - I did. But he didn't say one word about G&R at any time,
and I didn't ask.

Bonneville88 said:

grmps - I did. But he didn't say one word about G&R at any time,
and I didn't ask.

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Good thinking! I'm sure he appreciated that.

I really enjoy these Songbird threads that pop up now and then. They alway get long but these are such special guitars. Nice seeing Nuuska'a beauitful Red and White ones and of course Grot's marvelous Crossroads period pieces. To contribute - Songbirds were very out of style 6 / 8 years ago and I saw them come up in the six to seven bill range back then. Seem like interest has grown and they often sell for over a grand these days. I don't think that's overpriced as the build quality is excellent. I've got a common late Westerly S4CE (my nicest guitar).

Dadzmad said:

I really enjoy these Songbird threads that pop up now and then. They alway get long but these are such special guitars. Nice seeing Nuuska'a beauitful Red and White ones and of course Grot's marvelous Crossroads period pieces. To contribute - Songbirds were very out of style 6 / 8 years ago and I saw them come up in the six to seven bill range back then. Seem like interest has grown and they often sell for over a grand these days. I don't think that's overpriced as the build quality is excellent. I've got a common late Westerly S4CE (my nicest guitar).

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I'm thinking I shoulda jumped on the 900 dollar one cause it seems everything just went dead. There's none on Ebay and the 2 on reverb are the wrong era and over priced.

If you watch the live video of Eva Cassidy doing "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" you realize how nice they can sound.

So, How do you all decide how much is too much to pay for your vintage guitars? What is a bargain? What's not? Does it really come down to what you want and what you can afford at the time? What constitutes getting ripped off?
I ask because theres a listing for a guitar that looks like the songbird build but they want 2k for it... that seems excessive

grmps said:

So, How do you all decide how much is too much to pay for your vintage guitars? What is a bargain? What's not? Does it really come down to what you want and what you can afford at the time?

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Yes. The old adage is "What's it worth? Whatever somebody's willing to pay for it at that moment".

grmps said:

What constitutes getting ripped off?
I ask because theres a listing for a guitar that looks like the songbird build but they want 2k for it... that seems excessive

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To me, "ripped off" only applies to an actual fraudulent misrepresentation and delivery (or lack thereof) of the item, with no recourse or response from the seller as to their failure to perform or deliver as promised/described.

Otherwise, if somebody pays "more than what it's worth" due to lack of due diligence, then that's not a rip-off.

Caveat emptor always applies.

These particular guitars are scarce enough that simple availability carries a certain premium as time goes on.
But I think most listing prices are open to negotiation and pieces are frequently obtained for less than original asking price.

Was that $2000 dollars for a Songbird (you think)? Yeah, does seem kinda pricey.

Closest comparison I could make is my F65ce, top-of-the line A/E model listed in '01 for $2299, got mine as New Old Stock for $1695 "out the door" and I think it's still worth at least that today, being in VVG condition, with original case.

(Another important consideration for Songbirds, now that I think about it: the original factory properly fitting case has value, I'd say at least $125.00.)

Other guys'll be along to offer other market perspectives.

Oh yes, don't be afraid to show us the piece you're considering, there's a long-standing tradition here of not trying to buy something out from under somebody who's looking for the right guitar, in case you were afraid of that.

The tradition is: show us the piece you're thinking of because somebody may see something you need to know, like, is it even a Songbird?

It's like family, bro.

adorshki said:

Oh yes, don't be afraid to show us the piece you're considering, there's a long-standing tradition here of not trying to buy something out from under somebody who's looking for the right guitar, in case you were afraid of that.

The tradition is: show us the piece you're thinking of because somebody may see something you need to know, like, is it even a Songbird?

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Thank you. I kinda got that feeling, but you never know if you got lurkers that are gonna swoop in and be a jerk... but everyone has been really warm from the get go. I only signed up with the intention of getting my question answered, but everyone has been so nice I've kinda stuck around.

So, yeah, it's a "prestige" being sold outta the UK. Seller claims it's a limited run but who knows how true that is...


Ultimately, I'm looking for a really thin body acoustic guitar, and I've always been attracted to the songbird ever since I saw Axl playing one nearly 30 years ago. So, Ideally I'd like to get that or some other Guild that is similar in dimensions... (but I'd probably settle for any other guitar with the same dimensions be it fender (blech!) or washburn or whatever- but Guild is the only one I know that makes/made them like this) So, I've been on the hunt (seriously determined) for about a month now. Whereas, before I'd just been browsing and wishing for maybe 15 years (barely casually looking, I'd say). Now that Covid's here to stay for a while I've put in about 500 hours since April (Not exaggerating at all) on the guitar. My ability has gotten tremendously better. I kinda feel validated in spending a little bit more on a guitar I've wanted for years. I can actually play the thing and It'd just be nice to have. I don't want to spend too much on it, as in get ripped off. I know all about the "what's the guitar worth to you?" angle, but why would I want to pay 1500.00 for a guitar that I should be able to get for 700-800? but I also don't mind paying 2k if the thing can resell at 3k, you know? Not that I'd plan to resell, but anybody feels good about a bargain... playing a guitar you wanted that you over paid on doesn't seem like it would play as well as guitar you wanted that you underpaid on or at least paid fair deal for.

My Tech is very adamant that I don't pay over 1k for one of these guitars (he's a professional musician and been a Luthier for over 30 years). I told him about the advice from some here on the board about checking ending/sold prices on reverb and ebay to get an idea of the going rate... He said, "That sounds like good advice on the surface, but we all know there's a sucker born every minute, and all you're doing is looking lists of people who got ripped off if they paid over 1k..." He's a funny guy, but I think he makes sense. I mean the guy's a luthier, he's gotta know what he's talking about. A mechanic can you tell you a car's worth better than a salesmen.

So, yeah, long winded answer.

even $1,000, to me, for a Songbird is too high. they pop up regularly enough (not daily, but not rarely). The black one was nice, but that was not a once in a lifetime opportunity. I am not claiming someone is getting ripped off if they paid $1,000, my point is, just buy a real acoustic, or real electric guitar, at that point. $700 or so has my attention, and it will always cost a little more than u pay, in the end. look for an offer u cant refuse. talking yourself out of one is better than talking yourself into one. wait for "the one"

Here is a X30 on Reverb. From the UK also.