The difference between models

[grmps]

Hello, I'm looking for specs on the Songbird and the SB-BK. I've exhausted google search and can't find much.
I'm really interested in purchasing a Songbird. I really like how thin they are... but I've run into problems trying to track them down... Some websites are selling "SB-BK" models and are listing them as Songbird models, but they look a lot thicker than the models listed as "Songbirds."

Ideally I'm trying to find a 1992 or 1993 (I've deduced those are the really thin ones with the knobs on the top rather than the side of the guitar) Can someone point me in the direction of a website or tell me the depth of the various songbird years (It looks like the 1998s are thicker than the 1993 and previous years) Are the SB-BKs a whole lot thicker than the actual Songbirds.
Thanks in advance

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! BK is not the model name, it is simply the color "Black" of the model you saw. So a SB-BK is a black Songbird.

The Songbird was introduced 1987 and the S4CE was introduced end of 1991. The rotary control knobs were still on the waist of the body. End of 1992 the rotary control knobs moved to the sholder of the body. Those bodies were 1 7/8" deep.
The deeper body slider controls came in 1995.

Our forum owner GAD has the catalog pages in his blog, here is the 1990 one:

https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1990-Catalog-pg14_1600.jpeg

Hans had told us before here : "The S4CE and the Songbird were exactly the same size with the same pickup system. The S4CE however, was the satin finished version of the Songbird. Both models went to the slightly thicker, about 2-1/2" deep, body around 1995.".

Workedinwesterly had told us: "The Songbird used the same profile as the Bluesbird, it even shared the same case. The earliest versions were thinner with a 2 knob system preamp on the side...part of the brace had to be cut away to install it. It also had a chunk of lead fastened to the 'tailblock' area to help it balance." and "The body became deeper once the Fishman slider preamp was used."

Later came the S4CE-HG (high gloss) (1998), the S4CE-HR (handrubbed) and the S4CE-BG (Barry Gibb) (1998) and a Songbird Custom (1989) according to Gruhn's Guide.

All in all it sounds like if you want the thin body and the rotary control knobs on the shoulder you need a 1992, 1993 or 1994 one.

Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler played the earlier version with the control knobs on the waist:




Ralf

 

[cupric]

Welcome! I love Songbirds. There is still a few out there. I have a search on Reverb and one on Ebay. They pop up with fair regularity.

 

[cupric]

Guild Songbird 1991 Acoustic/Electric Guitar | Reverb

Here we have one of the most popular acoustic electric guitars of its time, the Guild Songbird. Used by artists like Eric Clapton, Barry Gibb, and many others, this guitar can be played straight of plugged in - and its routed mahogany one-piece side and back and spruce top make for a great sounding

reverb.com

Here's one I was emailed about this morning from Reverb. There's a few others in the site as well.

 

[grmps]

Welcome to LTG! BK is not the model name, it is simply the color "Black" of the model you saw.
There were at least the Songbird (introduced 1987) and the S4CE (introduced end of 1991), the rotary control knobs were on the waist of the body. End of 1992 the rotary control knobs moved to the sholder of the body. The deeper body slider controls came in 1995.

Later came the S4CE-HG (high gloss) (1998), the S4CE-HR (handrubbed) and the S4CE-BG (Barry Gibb) (1998) and a Songbird Custom (1989) according to Gruhn's Guide.

Ralf

Thank you.
I had a feeling the BK meant black, but for me I can never really tell with these model numbers and so I thought I'd just put the whole name.

Is there a link to Gruhn's guide? Does it discuss the body specs of each of the models?

There's a 1991 Songbird natural finish (I'd prefer black but whatever) on Reverb right now for 1275 (discounted from 1500) that looks to be the right size and depth, but my tech showed me a luthier blue book that shows Songbirds should be bought at $975 in MINT condition, I understand there's wiggle room on those prices, but it's 300 bucks over what should be a mint guitar, and then they want shipping on top of that.... So, I'm still looking and there's a SB for sale at 975 which is closer to the price range but it looks waaaaaaaay thicker than the actual Songbird model... but they're selling it as a Songbird...
So I gave up my google search and just thought I'd post here...

 

[grmps]

Guild Songbird 1991 Acoustic/Electric Guitar | Reverb

Here we have one of the most popular acoustic electric guitars of its time, the Guild Songbird. Used by artists like Eric Clapton, Barry Gibb, and many others, this guitar can be played straight of plugged in - and its routed mahogany one-piece side and back and spruce top make for a great sounding

reverb.com

Here's one I was emailed about this morning from Reverb. There's a few others in the site as well.

Ha ha yeah I've seen this one for a while but it's just way to high over market value for me to pull the trigger on it. plus it's doesn't have the shoulder knobs or the color i like... so it's just too much for aesthetics I'd be settling on..

 

[SFIV1967]

I updated my post #2 with more information. No, the Gruhn's Guide does not show body thickness, I told you above what the body thickness is.

Ralf

 

[Bonneville88]

Welcome to LTG grmps!
Shot of an S4BG (Barry Gibb Signature) I owned for awhile.
Great guitar. That one on Reverb looks nice.

 

[Cougar]

...but my tech showed me a luthier blue book that shows Songbirds should be bought at $975 in MINT condition, I understand there's wiggle room on those prices, but it's 300 bucks over what should be a mint guitar, and then they want shipping on top of that....

Don't forget -- these days Reverb will add sales tax on top of that, too!

 

[grmps]

All in all it sounds like if you want the thin body and the rotary control knobs on the shoulder you need a 1992, 1993 or 1994 one.

Awesome!! thank you!

 

[SFIV1967]

Awesome!! thank you!

Also mind that there is a lot of wrong info in all ads regarding the manufacturing year of a guitar, so don't just search by year as you could miss a lot. The location of the control knobs is the best indicator as the thicker bodies have the slider controls. So search for Songbird or SB or S4CE and see what you find. Good luck in your hunt! And when you see a NT on the label behind the model name, that only means "natural top".
Ralf

 

[grmps]

Welcome to LTG grmps!
Shot of an S4BG (Barry Gibb Signature) I owned for awhile.
Great guitar. That one on Reverb looks nice.

I've seen this guitar on my searches over the past couple days. It's a nice looking guitar, but it's just a little too thick for me. I have an Ibanez AEW that's about this thick. It's pretty slim for an acoustic guitar, but nothing looks like the super thin body of the songbird. I've seen the guy on here who posted the vids from Frankie Hannon on Tesla's 5MAJ. I wore that cassette out in high school. I didn't know until recently he was playing a songbird (My wife bought me the video a few years back). So, that kinda helped me pursue actually looking for one. Now that I can actually play kinda decently in my old age, why not?

 

[grmps]

Also mind that there is a lot of wrong info in all adds regarding the manufacturing year of a guitar, so don't just search by year as you could miss a lot. The location of the control knobs is the best indicator as the thicker bodies have the slider controls. So search for Songbird or SB or S4CE and see what you find. Good luck in your hunt! And when you see a NT on the label behind the model name, that only means "natural top".
Ralf

I noticed that... I searched the Serial number out of that SB-Bk and that's where I noticed it's a 91 and the model says SB not Songbird and it seemed to be thicker than that one out of San Jose. That's why I decided to come on here and ask. Really glad that guitar shop didn't accept my offer.

 

[JohnW63]

I guitar will sell at what ever price someone wants to pay for it. What a "blue book" says it should sell for is just a guess at the time someone wrote down a number. I think if you look at eBay "ended sales" in a search and Reverb sales history shows would give you a more current price.

 

[cupric]

Thank you.
I had a feeling the BK meant black, but for me I can never really tell with these model numbers and so I thought I'd just put the whole name.

Is there a link to Gruhn's guide? Does it discuss the body specs of each of the models?

There's a 1991 Songbird natural finish (I'd prefer black but whatever) on Reverb right now for 1275 (discounted from 1500) that looks to be the right size and depth, but my tech showed me a luthier blue book that shows Songbirds should be bought at $975 in MINT condition, I understand there's wiggle room on those prices, but it's 300 bucks over what should be a mint guitar, and then they want shipping on top of that.... So, I'm still looking and there's a SB for sale at 975 which is closer to the price range but it looks waaaaaaaay thicker than the actual Songbird model... but they're selling it as a Songbird...
So I gave up my google search and just thought I'd post here...

I think it might be a bit of a buyers market right now due to covid etc. But I've been looking at them for quite a while and they are not usually budget friendly. Depending on condition, case. But I believe 1300ish is on the lower end for a nice example.

 

[grmps]

I guitar will sell at what ever price someone wants to pay for it. What a "blue book" says it should sell for is just a guess at the time someone wrote down a number. I think if you look at eBay "ended sales" in a search and Reverb sales history shows would give you a more current price.

I get that. That's why I wrote "wiggle room" around it since those prices change from year to year. I've been kinda using it as a point of reference. Thanks for the Ebay tip.

 

[grmps]

I guitar will sell at what ever price someone wants to pay for it. What a "blue book" says it should sell for is just a guess at the time someone wrote down a number. I think if you look at eBay "ended sales" in a search and Reverb sales history shows would give you a more current price.

I just found Ebay is selling them anywhere between 1k low and 2k high closer to 1k being more abundant. and reverb has Nothing in their Price guide everything is D and F models

 

[mavuser]

these are cool guitars, but totally overpriced recently. especially the satin finish version. u can get a real nice Guild acoustic or Guild Nightbird in these price ranges. a nice Songbird for under a grand is reasonable, to me.

 

[grmps]

these are cool guitars, but totally overpriced recently. especially the satin finish version. u can get a real nice Guild acoustic or Guild Nightbird in these price ranges. a nice Songbird for under a grand is reasonable, to me.

That's exactly what my tech said.

 

[cupric]

these are cool guitars, but totally overpriced recently. especially the satin finish version. u can get a real nice Guild acoustic or Guild Nightbird in these price ranges. a nice Songbird for under a grand is reasonable, to me.

I wonder if the SB is overpriced, or the other Guilds underpriced? With the cost of other vintage guitars, not only Gibson and Fender, but many budget brands also commanding such high prices....almost any Guild is a steal.