Tops "opening up"

[Uke]

I've just been over in the Delcamp Classical Guitar forum and have followed a discussion about whether acoustic guitar tops open up or not. I posed the question, "have there been any acoustical engineering studies which have generated data to support either side of the notion of guitar tops "opening up." The general answer was "no" -- there's no money in it for guitar manufacturers to pursue the question. For any of you folks on the brain team around here, here's a project just waiting for you.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I believe acoustic solid tops do open up over time. I think it varies on who is playing the guitar and for what length of time, but generally, I have noticed a more open projection and sound the more I play my acoustics.

Even my 50+ year acoustic dread is doing something different sonic wise, even as of late. I can feel it more in the gut, and I am not sure if its loose bracing or what.....

 

[Uke]

Someone did mention that over time there are changes in the resin in the wood which affect the sound. This makes a bit of sense to me.

 

[jp]

We've had this discussion here before as well, and I think there are few threads about this if you search.

 

[gjmalcyon]

We've had this discussion here before as well, and I think there are few threads about this if you search.

Yes, we have:

Acoustic tonewood aging

So what happens to aged tonewoods? Does the chemical structure change with playing?

letstalkguild.com

Tone of new vs. vintage (D55)

Just wondering (and yes, I know, it's a preference thing, and "listen for yourself," do an A/B etc!).... Your opinions of a vintage sound (70s) compared to new guitar? I'm looking at 2 different D55s right now: one from 1977 (the forecast from luthier on this one looks good), and one from 2012...

letstalkguild.com

Robert Godin explains the "opening up" of an acoustic

Interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPh9_gFH ... e=youtu.be

letstalkguild.com

 

[Guildedagain]

there's no money in it for guitar manufacturers to pursue the question.

It's been pursued. They open up, and eventually, they die.

Warning guys like WW, there's only so many notes in there, maybe stave off the ineffable by sparing some 16th and maybe even some 8th notes ;[]

 

[Uke]

Thanks gjm -- you've saved me the search!

 

[chazmo]

It's definitely an interesting topic, but the "line" between science and opinion on this subject is very blurry. At least on my computer screen.

Uke, all good, though. I'm not familiar with the forum you were talking about, but as far as LTG is concerned, I'd have to say that the answer around here is not "no." . Good luck in the hunt for more information on the subject!

 

[Guildedagain]

It is a genuine concern that guitars do wear out, that's why it's not hoarding to have extras saved up.



@0:35 "You know, guitars, they wear out".

 

[5thumbs]

@0:35 "Now guitars, they wear out".

The lucky ones might. Mine will probably commit suicide.

 

[Guildedagain]

Old threads have the goods. From 12 years ago, and yes, Segovia said instruments have their prime, and can be past their prime, sonically.

You don't need before and after tone tests with this one, it's really opened up.

 

[Roland]

I'm not going to argue that they open up or not. First of all I don't have enough experience and secondly I think that it would be so subtle and over such a long time that I wouldn't notice if it did. I'm not particularly perceptive to that kind of thing. I would think though, if the molecular or cellular structure of the wood changed in some way to allow the tone to change noticeably as well, why would it always be for the better? I would think that there would be a certain number of guitars that started out fairly good then opened up to be clunkers, yet the assumption is that a guitar will always sound better after opening up.

 

[fronobulax]

No science that I know, just anecdotes.

The majority opinion around here seems to be that sound improves with age. There are minority opinions and even anecdotes about guitars that did not improve with age.

There was some marriage advice to the effect that marrying someone and hoping to change them was not going to work. Tweak that a bit and you should never get a guitar today because you hope or expect it to open up. If you don't like it today, move on.

 

[bobouz]

There was some marriage advice to the effect that marrying someone and hoping to change them was not going to work. Tweak that a bit and you should never get a guitar today because you hope or expect it to open up. If you don't like it today, move on.

I'm 100% on board with this - regarding both marriage and guitars!

 

[lungimsam]

I could think of a lot of variables that would make Segovia, Bream, et. al. think their guitars were opening up then dying over the decades, but I am more interested in how, playing 8 hours a day/365 they kept/keep their hands from dying from tendonitis/carpal tunnel, and other repetitive stress variables. Not saying that is a given to happen (hopefully not) but I am interested in how they kept/keep their hands healthy.
They would be/would've been real experts on the subject and I bet could/could've teach/taught a lot on the subject on how to deal with hands through the years.
I think that would be one of my first questions to a pro musician is how do you keep the hands healthy with all that playing and how do you go on with the touring schedule if trouble flairs up.

Veer: One thing that always fascinated me was how the classical pros could get such volume out of their guitars. Hammer as I did, I could never get the volume that Yamashita and Parkening do.

 

[richardp69]

Although my gut tells me it is likely true I can honestly say I've never heard a noticeable difference between a guitar I bought new and that same guitar after significant play time.

 

[Guildedagain]

If you don't like it today, move on.

Or love the one you're, find it within yourself to change.

 

[lungimsam]

Or love the one you're, find it within yourself to change.

It is interesting that one can still get amazing tones from gear that is initially deemed, less than. I have seen performances where the artist started playing and I thought (oh that tone is horrendous, what the heck!?!?!?) but then they got the guitar to just speak in ways you could not without the "flaws". Very interesting!

 

[Uke]

I could think of a lot of variables that would make Segovia, Bream, et. al. think their guitars were opening up then dying over the decades, but I am more interested in how, playing 8 hours a day/365 they kept/keep their hands from dying from tendonitis/carpal tunnel, and other repetitive stress variables. Not saying that is a given to happen (hopefully not) but I am interested in how they kept/keep their hands healthy.
They would be/would've been real experts on the subject and I bet could/could've teach/taught a lot on the subject on how to deal with hands through the years.
I think that would be one of my first questions to a pro musician is how do you keep the hands healthy with all that playing and how do you go on with the touring schedule if trouble flairs up.

Veer: One thing that always fascinated me was how the classical pros could get such volume out of their guitars. Hammer as I did, I could never get the volume that Yamashita and Parkening do.

My classical guitar teacher used to tell me, "whack it!" Seems like the issue for a lot of classical players was not hand/wrist/arm issues, but back issues (especially Parkening). There -- I've taken the veer and have run with it .

 

[Westerly Wood]

I had a friend at a job long ago who was a kickass and regionally known/sought after bluegrass banjo player. He had given up on playing in bands at that time...he also owned a Santa Cruz PreWar OM. He brought it to work one day, it was fantastic guitar. He never played it as he played banjo, so he left it out in front of one of his sound system speakers, so it would get some reverberation and the top would open up over time...The top he said did open up by doing this, and not by actually playing it. Interesting!