Tin soldiers and Nixon coming.

[CA-35]

It was 41 years ago today, May 4 1970, when 4 students were killed by the National Guard at Kent State University in Ohio.
I remember being a little boy (I was 9) at the dinner table watching The Huntley Brinkley report with my Dad.

CSNY tribute; "Ohio"
http://youtu.be/82CYNj7noic

Others I could think of;
Joe Walsh - Turn To Stone
http://youtu.be/N1rUe8SK0ak

The Beach Boys - Student Demonstration Time
http://youtu.be/N1rUe8SK0ak

J.J. Light - Kent State Massacre and Holly Near - It Could Have Been Me.

 

[capnjuan]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was in Wildflecken Germany when it happened. I was holding off the Commies.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was packing my bag for Basic Training at the time.
It made me wonder if I would ever be involved in something like this.
That was a crazy time and an even crazier war.

As an 18 year old young man, I didn't know what side I was on.
I wanted to protect my Country but I didn't agree with the politics over the War. Why were our young men dying in Viet Nam?
They didn't even want us there.
As a soldier, I was the enimy of the youth of America, my Peers.

I'm happy to see America has a different attitued toward our
soldiers today.

 

[CA-35]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

Re;

I'm happy to see America has a different attitude toward our
soldiers today.

I've always supported our troops, even though I have not always been sold on their battles.

 

[AlohaJoe]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I'm happy to see America has a different attitude toward our soldiers today.

Yes, I think we do... I certainly hope so. Also, as I get older, soldiers look younger. That alone can alter your perspective.

 

[dreadnut]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was 16, a junior in high school.

About two years later when I was in the Navy I read the James A. Michener book "Kent State." It is a must-read if you want to know what really happened. His book was so accurate that he and his notes were subpoenaed at the Guardsmens' trial.

James Michener on his 1971 book of reporting, Kent State, What Happened and Why

“When those National Guardsmen fired on those students in the spring of 1970, killing four of them and wounding nine, I felt compelled to understand what happened. I think we all saw that this was a kind of watershed point, that we were heading in a direction that nobody wanted to go. One of the things I’m proudest about in my life, is that I went into a very complex situation after the shootings at Kent State with only my own resources, and not very extensive ones, and by patient legwork and by talking with a huge number of people and listening and putting things together, I covered it about as well as the FBI did with 500 agents and all the police powers and subpoena powers at their disposal.”


My takeaway was that Jerry Rubin and Abby Hoffman blew into town and stirred evryone up like a hornet's nest, then they blew back out of town before it got real ugly. 'Coupla real sweethearts, those two.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was in high school and heard about it on the evening news along with, what seemed liked, nightly reports about Vietnam. Certainly another time when the US was so polarized! The details recorded on Wikipedia regarding when, how and why the lethal shooting began at the college are chilling.

 

[Bikerdoc]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I had just gotten out of the Army that January. I was bumming around the country (in discovery mode) at that time in Chicago when Kent State happened. My cousin was a student at Kent State at the time and luckily didn't experience that tragedy first hand. She still lives up that way. Ironically I just got back in touch with her after 20 years.

The citizenry is certainly more positive to the military these days and that's a good thing.


Peace

 

[Bluelizzard]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was a student at Kent State at the time of this tragedy. Thank you all for remembering this day. Peace.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I just remembered that there was a military draft back then - likely had an affect on how young people viewed the war.

 

[AlohaJoe]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I just remembered that there was a military draft back then - likely had an affect on how young people viewed the war.

It certainly did... I was at San Francisco State at the time.

 

[adorshki]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was 16, a junior in high school.
I think we all saw that this was a kind of watershed point, that we were heading in a direction that nobody wanted to go.

I was 14, about to progress from middle school to high school. I can only remember thinking "How could something like this happen?". I'd already been introduced to governmental "rewriting" of history by a civics teacher, and thus was turned against the war on legal grounds..it wasn't a "legal" war...but this was a whole new level that turned so many of us "radical".

My takeaway was that Jerry Rubin and Abby Hoffman blew into town and stirred evryone up like a hornet's nest, then they blew back out of town before it got real ugly. 'Coupla real sweethearts, those two.

Later on I figured out that a LOT of those guys were cynically using "the movement" simply to practice their chops for futures in politics.
That's when I started trying to figure out just who had something to gain from manipulating popular opinion.
I found out that by 1970 virtually every household in the country had been touched by the war. They either had a family member involved or knew another family that did. The country was already against "the war", but this caused 'em to REALLY start distrusting "the government".
Watergate was an inevitable consequence. When a president got chased out of office by the power of a free press, that's when I realized "the system" actually works.
And started distrusting the guys who claimed to want to "tear down the corrupt system".
Seems to me they wanted to replace it with something that would gratify THEIR personal needs, at MY expense. :x

 

[capnjuan]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I just remembered that there was a military draft back then - likely had an affect on how young people viewed the war.

It wasn't just young people.

The parents of young men of service age were divided too. Fathers, as often as not WW2 vets, believing that the war needed to be supported: "I went, why shouldn't he?" Mothers distressed at the thought of their children at risk for a cause they didn't understand. The children of these households were forced to take sides guaranteeing bitter disappointment for one parent or the other.

The draft brought back echoes of the draft of 1863; 'Rich man's war, poor man's fight' where, by paying money or buying a surrogate, the draft could legally be evaded. During the VN war and as it relates to draftees, generally the whiter, wealthier, better-educated young men didn't fight but the blacker, poorer, less well-educated did.

So ... an inequitable system supplying young men for a war that nobody exactly understood being fought as a 'Limited War' (one hand tied behind the military's back); it might have been worse, but I don't see how.

 

[poser]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

I was a student at Kent State at the time of this tragedy. Thank you all for remembering this day. Peace.

Blue -
I live not too far from the Kent campus. I went there for the 20th anniversary commemoration or maybe it was the 25th. I know back in the '70's there wasn't a lot of love lost between students and the university administration. You might like to know that they've come around. They have special free parking for whoever wants to visit the campus for the May 4th commemoration, and a museum with letters and other correspondence from the time surrounding the shooting. They don't try to hide anything. Usually there is a display of art related to the subject. They in the past they had speakers and candle light vigils on the night of the third. I'm not sure if they still do that or not.
I'm a geologist. Glen Frank was long gone by the time I moved to Ohio, but people still spoke of him with the highest regard.

Just thought you might like to know people around here (northeast Ohio) haven't forgotten.

 

[Bikerdoc]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

It was such a hectic time. Me? I was a product of the 60's which of course led to the turbulent early 70's. Hell, I tell everyone I AM the 60's. :roll:

I served in Nam; served after I returned from Nam. Still in uniform I protested the war(even though I volunteered); actually marching for the truth about the war. That's what I wanted to hear. I was an assistant editor for an underground weekly; a rag named "Broken Arrow" published secretly out of.......wait, I probably shouldn't admit that. :wink: But Abby Hoffman and Jerry Rubin weren't all that inspirinng to me; I thought they were idiots personally. But then again, I thought I knew it all back then; that every thing was a conspiracy and "The Man" was the enemy. Funny thing is that I didn't even know who "The Man" was. I just knew he was untouchable, hiding in shadows, controlling the destinys of millions. And I think then next 40+ years of cantankerousness started when the VFW wouldn't let me in; told me I wasn't a Veteran. :shock: :x Hoffman and Rubin had nothing to do with it. Actually, they didn't really even make a mark in history IMHO.

After Kent state I realized that my bumming around the country, trying to "find myself", was really my hiding place; from all the crap I didn't know nor understood. What I did know back then was that the media was beginning to do more than just report the news. And it continues today from every network; make news happen. Sensationalize every aspect of every twist in every 2 second bite and you can control just enough havoc to justify as much idiotic behavior out of people as possible (read; laughable). I wish I could say you only see them on Jerry Springer but I know better than that.

I can still see the flowers in the barrels of those rifles. The source of that type of gentle behavior, that gesture, still eludes me. I haven't believed (generally) in the goodness of man in 40+ years; simply one person at a time. I can't see beyond that. And what that means (example) is the guy driving in the rain, after sunset, and doesn't have his lights on is a complete and total, uncaring, unknowing, self-centered idiot. He couldn't possibly be anything else at any other time in his life. He probably beats his kids, cheats on his wife, steals from offering basket and cheers for the Chicago White Sox. And, he probably shows up for a jam session with the damn price tag still hanging from the neck of his guitar.

Peace

 

[adorshki]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

And, he probably shows up for a jam session with the damn price tag still hanging from the neck of his guitar.
Peace

:lol:
Or puts a fake one there just to get the dig in. :wink:

 

[Pike]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

My takeaway was that Jerry Rubin and Abby Hoffman blew into town and stirred evryone up like a hornet's nest, then they blew back out of town before it got real ugly. 'Coupla real sweethearts, those two.

Maybe dreadnut, but they didn't, nor would they ever have, pulled any triggers...

 

[Scratch]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

My takeaway was that Jerry Rubin and Abby Hoffman blew into town and stirred evryone up like a hornet's nest, then they blew back out of town before it got real ugly. 'Coupla real sweethearts, those two.

Maybe dreadnut, but they didn't, nor would they ever have, pulled any triggers...

True statement. That's why I wouldn't want either one in my foxhole...

 

[Pike]

Re: Tin soldiers and Nixon comming.

No kiddin scratch. Wouldn't want to be in one with someone who'd gun down one of our kids either.

 

[doncarney]

I was in college at the time. I graduated in June of 1970. From 1968 to 1970 were very difficult years to say the least. Awful things kept happening one after another (just like today). The good news is that the music that was produced was pretty good and has held up over time. The country recovered from the war although at great cost. All we can do is keep trying.