next Oxnard model announced ...

[chazmo]

You guys shouldn't have gotten me looking...:distress::distress:

No such real thing as "African Mahogany," thats a marketing term...Khaya is a different genus, like Sapele...WDNHU? (What Did New Hartford Use?)

The D55 does not show a neck joint type, though that does not bother me as much as the wood nomenclature.

Baggs Element pickup? Well, DTAR is no longer, but damn, they could have done better with that...

And whats this with Light Gauge strings? Oh, the horror...

In New Hartford, there was a time when European customs confiscated at least one Guild shipment because of the mahogany they were using. After that, it's my understanding that the shop started building with various types of mahogany. I believe this was for European guitars, only, but I am not certain. I remember seeing at least two different types of mahogany in the wood room, which was either for this purpose or perhaps for building lower-end Fenders. Not sure. Anyway, I believe the US market only ever got Honduran.

 

[fronobulax]

No such real thing as "African Mahogany," thats a marketing term...Khaya is a different genus, like Sapele...WDNHU? (What Did New Hartford Use?)

The D55 does not show a neck joint type, though that does not bother me as much as the wood nomenclature.

The advantage to a marketing term is that it gives the builder options when buying wood. They can buy what is affordable and available, use it, and not worry about some smart a$$ with a lawyer suing because the rosewood came from Western India.

From talking to people at New Hartford I am convinced that the people who make guitars and the people who buy them do not always believe the same things about tone (and other) woods. "Marketing terms" is one obvious example. The builders believe they can produce functionally equivalent guitars using one of several woods. The buyers believe that they can discern a functional difference and it is significant that the wood was cut from the Western side of the tree.

 

[merlin6666]

In New Hartford, there was a time when European customs confiscated at least one Guild shipment because of the mahogany they were using. After that, it's my understanding that the shop started building with various types of mahogany. I believe this was for European guitars, only, but I am not certain. I remember seeing at least two different types of mahogany in the wood room, which was either for this purpose or perhaps for building lower-end Fenders. Not sure. Anyway, I believe the US market only ever got Honduran.

Wow I was not aware that they had issues with Mahogany. Anyway, I have been following the discussions about Mahogany on other forums and been reading up on it as I find the issue interesting. It seems what most people consider genuine mahogany (i.e. Bigleaf or less correctly Honduran) has been on CITES Appendix since about 1995 if it was grown in Middle or South America. However, the vast bulk of it is now grown on plantations throughout Asia, and there are no restrictions on those woods. Then there are the mahogany-like woods such as Khaya, Sapele, and Sipo that grow in Africa and are still abundant but with population, harvesting, and environmental pressures will probably become rare in the next few decades. They are more figured and may sound less complex than the genuine mahoganies. Guild uses these for their "Westerly Series". I think that the marketing people should get smart and instead of coming up with empty terms, use actual valid descriptions of the woods used and on what continent it was grown.

 

[adorshki]

Wow I was not aware that they had issues with Mahogany. Anyway, I have been following the discussions about Mahogany on other forums and been reading up on it as I find the issue interesting. It seems what most people consider genuine mahogany (i.e. Bigleaf or less correctly Honduran) has been on CITES Appendix since about 1995 if it was grown in Middle or South America.

THANK YOU for paying attention!
YES that's how CITES works and it has nothing to do with smart-*** lawyers bringing suit.
It's either properly documented or it ain't, and I suspect the real problem was that the 'hog on those European guitars wasn't properly documented as to source.
They've been a lot more stringent over there than we have here, and CITES does allow individual parties to have domestic laws that are more stringent than the CITES regs.
Remember a few years back, one of the Gibson seizures wasn't based on "illegally harvested" wood, it was based on improperly prepared customs paperwork.

Then there are the mahogany-like woods such as Khaya, Sapele, and Sipo that grow in Africa and are still abundant but with population, harvesting, and environmental pressures will probably become rare in the next few decades. They are more figured and may sound less complex than the genuine mahoganies. Guild uses these for their "Westerly Series". I think that the marketing people should get smart and instead of coming up with empty terms, use actual valid descriptions of the woods used and on what continent it was grown.

The problem there is that is inhibits their ability switch woods as needed, and creates complications in writing the spec sheets.
And Guild's marketing didn't come up with "African Mahogany", it's been around for a while to be the catch-all term for those alternative species. It's just verbal shorthand and I can understand why it's probably not practical to spec a single type if they're actually using whatever is best price or simply available on a given day.

 

[txbumper57]

I am wondering if we are going to see an influx of Cuban Grown Mahogany in American guitars now that the walls between the USA and Cuba are starting to come down.

TX

 

[swiveltung]

The advantage to a marketing term is that it gives the builder options when buying wood. They can buy what is affordable and available, use it, and not worry about some smart a$$ with a lawyer suing because the rosewood came from Western India.

From talking to people at New Hartford I am convinced that the people who make guitars and the people who buy them do not always believe the same things about tone (and other) woods. "Marketing terms" is one obvious example. The builders believe they can produce functionally equivalent guitars using one of several woods. The buyers believe that they can discern a functional difference and it is significant that the wood was cut from the Western side of the tree.

Sooo.... what is African Mahogany then? I've known of the term for probably 40 years. Beautiful wood and a bit different from So. American mahogany for sure. I saw a huge table slab that was amazing in a hardwood store many years ago. I've been told before it's pretty much extinct. But I see some advertised. I ran across the term African in vintage antique furniture first. I always thought A.M. was true Mahogany not So. American. But have found more people who think the opposite in the last decade or two. I assume they know more than me!

 

[kostask]

The "real" as in the original Mahogany is from Central America. By orignal, I mean the type of wood used origginally when acoustic steel string guitars started to be made )1920s or so). It was used due to its strength and resistance to warpage under the increased pull of the steel strings.

The"African Mahoganies" (sapele, khaya, etc.) look like the Central American mahoganies, but biologically/botanically are not in the same family. They have a similar colour, and have a similar cross linked grain. They can be more or less figured, but that is a characteristic of the individual tree, not necessarily something common to all the trees of a wood type.

 

[adorshki]

Sooo.... what is African Mahogany then? I've known of the term for probably 40 years. Beautiful wood and a bit different from So. American mahogany for sure. I saw a huge table slab that was amazing in a hardwood store many years ago. I've been told before it's pretty much extinct. But I see some advertised. I ran across the term African in vintage antique furniture first. I always thought A.M. was true Mahogany not So. American. But have found more people who think the opposite in the last decade or two. I assume they know more than me!

Wikipedia says the term was applied to the Carribean species first:

"The name mahogany was initially associated only with those islands in the West Indies under British control (French colonists used the term acajou, while in the Spanish territories it was called caoba). The origin of the name is uncertain, but it could be a corruption of 'm'oganwo', the name used by the Yoruba and Ibo people of West Africa to describe trees of the genus Khaya, which is closely related to Swietenia. When transported to Jamaica as slaves, they gave the same name to the similar trees they saw there.[18] Though this interpretation has been disputed, no one has suggested a more plausible origin"

FRom here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahogany

It's a good read!