next Oxnard model announced ...

[chazmo]

One other issue I had was that they clearly tried to hide the holes in the neck block that people would easily see on finished guitars by making a Wood cap that has the serial number on it. The way they went about the installation of this wood cap was to try and make it appear to be part of the neck block itself and make the neck block appear solid at a passing glance like on a dovetail joint guitar. The more you look at it though the more you realize that is just a cover to hide the neck joint construction. To me that is deliberate, I mean is it really possible they covered up the joint inside the body by accident? Personally I don't think so. Once again, Just my opinion.

TX

My 2011 Ibanez Artwood Studio has a cover over the neck bolts. It's common practice, and yes it's to hide the bolts and provide a surface for some good identifying information about the guitar.

I'm not going to comment on the quality, tone, or general goodness of a bolt-on neck, but I am pissed off that CMG marketing explicitly denied that this was a bolt-on neck when inquiries were made. That's really not right.

 

[txbumper57]

Ever notice how on every FS ad everyone always talks about checking the neck angle, and then how much a neck reset costs, who can do them right, and how hard it is to reset the necks on Guild guitars?

A lot of that has to do with 70% of the used market is mostly Guitars that have been left in the trunk of a car in the Desert during the summertime or Stored without a case at the bottom of a Swimming pool in the middle of winter. I look at the ads everyday and most of the stuff for sale has been severely misused and abused. Normally someone is looking to pass on a non playing guitar to a Novice Guitar Buyer/Player with no knowledge of what they are getting into for double the price. 90% of the threads with people saying don't forget to check the neck angle are because they are trying to educate folks on what they are buying and what condition the guitar they are looking at is in so they don't get taken to the cleaners.

Neck resets are a part of owning a Steel String acoustic regardless of the type of Neck joint as anything with at least 150 pounds of constant tension on it will eventually need some attending to. That being said if a Guitar is properly cared for and maintained it can take a lifetime before it needs a Neck Reset. I can honestly say that if any of my Guilds that are properly cared for need neck resets over the next 40-50 years then I have no issues with paying for them to be performed to keep the guitar at an optimum condition and playing level. However I sure won't waste my time on a guitar that has a construction aspect that I don't care for or am not partial to. Why spend 40 years playing something you don't care for just to offset the price of $200 difference in the work that will need to be performed anyway? Just my opinion as always.

TX

 

[Bonneville88]

Reading all this with great interest... appreciating the viewpoints... especially from TX!
Have to confess one part of me, however irrational, wants to lock myself in a room with
all my beloved Westerlys and lock & load!

 

[FNG]

I can't argue your point that a bolt on neck runs counter to the marketing for the guitars in question, and it should be disclosed.

On the other hand, a bolt on neck well done seems to make a lot of sense from both sides of the coin.

 

[jedzep]

Regardless of all this I'm looking forward to tying out the M20. Maybe even picking one up.

You'll like it, I'll guess. I bought the 56th one off the line and sold it a month later because it sounded so close in tone to my all mahog '31 Gibson L0 that I thought it was dumb to have two so similar. That's a good recommendation in my book.

 

[JohnW63]

I am pissed off that CMG marketing explicitly denied that this was a bolt-on neck when inquiries were made. That's really not right.

This I have missed in the threads. THAT would be a problem for me. I don't care that much about the neck joint, as long as it is engineered to LAST and do it's job. I am not in the camp of folks who can tell the difference between one neck joint or the other or hide glue or another. I just don't like being mislead.

Now, I would like some clarity about the question that was asked, as mentioned in the quote.
Were they asked, "Are these guitars built using a mortise and tenon joint ? " , or were they asked something more vague, like " Are these made with traditional neck joints like they used in < fill in the factory > " ?

 

[Big-Al]

OK . . . I'm late to the conversation. The photo shows two holes in the mortise on each guitar body . . . and two similar holes on the end of a neck assembly in the background. I don't see any studs sticking out of the neck tenon or countersinks or counterbores in the neck block to hide a bolt head. This looks more like dowel holes than bolt holes to me . . . or maybe just locating holes to aid in fixturing.

 

[txbumper57]

The countersinks or counterbores you are mentioning for hiding the bolt heads would be located inside the guitar body on the bottom of the neck block which is not visible anywhere in the photo posted. Let me also make a statement for come clarity on the situation. It did take 4-5 emails of asking specifically if they used a Mortise and Tenon joint on these guitars for Guild to actually confirm that they did in fact use Mortise and Tenon joints. However Guild would not verify if they were bolt on M&T joints or Doweled M&T joints (at least not in my inquiry anyways) so it could be either way.

I understand why the decision to use these joints was made or at least possibly one of the main contributors to it. They were training an entirely New and somewhat inexperienced workforce in Oxnard to build these guitars. It is a whole lot easier to Plug a CNC M&T joint together than it is to teach someone who is not familiar with constructing Dovetail Neck Joints how to build a Dovetail Neck Joint. I imagine the CNC M&T joint also cut down on Manufacturing Goofs as well allowing more guitars to be built right the first time instead of having to go back and redo the work of a more complicated joint that wasn't constructed properly.

As I stated earlier there are those that like M&T joints and that is fine with me. My major issue isn't with the fact that they used this particular joint on their entry level USA made guitars. My issue is that they deliberately hid the fact this was the neck joint on the guitar and represented them as something else.

TX

 

[Westerly Wood]

My issue is that they deliberately hid the fact this was the neck joint on the guitar and represented them as something else.

TX

Yes, that is total crap on Guild's part. That being said, it is quite the way things are these days. Go Westerly days! Oh, and I don't mean Westerly collection days. Never mind...

 

[mavuser]

OK . . . I'm late to the conversation. The photo shows two holes in the mortise on each guitar body . . . and two similar holes on the end of a neck assembly in the background. I don't see any studs sticking out of the neck tenon or countersinks or counterbores in the neck block to hide a bolt head. This looks more like dowel holes than bolt holes to me . . . or maybe just locating holes to aid in fixturing.

Just following along, not much to add other than to be clear, Big Al, the guitar(s) in the picture is a D-55 and -not- one of the models with the bolt-on neck variaton being discussed.

one thing I don't understand, if you are going to use a bolt-on neck, why not make it easy to remove (like a Fender tele)...it seems they have buired the access inside the guitar and glued a cap (with the serial number) over it.

I tend to prefer set neck guitars (unless it's a Fender), but played an Oxnard M-20 and liked it plenty, sounded and felt great, albeit the neck was a little wide.

 

[Westerly Wood]

are there cracks in that D55 top? they are equidistant away from the center bookmatch line. looks like a two piece top? what? must be optical illusion. anyway, the fretboard looks sweet

 

[bobouz]

The "cover up" is frequently worse than the crime, isn't it? Reminds me a bit of when Martin tried to sneak Micarta fingerboards & bridges into the 16-Series in 2001. Made a lot of folks (like me) unhappy at the time.

But personally, I give Cordoba a fairly wide berth here. I think they're just trying to figure out the best way to make the Guild brand a serious and sustainable player in the acoustic guitar market - something Fender was never able to pull off (while leaving five factory closures in the rear view mirror - yes, I'm counting Corona & the Nashville Custom Shop).

So far, Cordoba's game plan seems to be somewhat similar to the Martin format: Import the low end stuff, produce a quality mid-range instrument in the USA at a lower cost with non-traditional appointments (similar to the 16-Series), and then do the full-bore traditional series stuff (while keeping the brand name on all lines as opposed to having a low-end Epi or Squire type line).

Hope they're able to make it all work long-term.

 

[Westerly Wood]

But personally, I give Cordoba a fairly wide berth here. I think they're just trying to figure out the best way to make the Guild brand a serious and sustainable player in the acoustic guitar market - something Fender was never able to pull off (while leaving five factory closures in the rear view mirror - yes, I'm counting Corona & the Nashville Custom Shop).

this is a great take and perspective.

 

[adorshki]

Hope they're able to make it all work long-term.

When they put pointy heels on 'em that's when I'm jumpin' ship.

 

[Westerly Wood]

When they put pointy heels on 'em that's when I'm jumpin' ship.

Al, the flat heel on my Br is like one of its best attributes.

 

[adorshki]

Al, the flat heel on my Br is like one of its best attributes.

A-yup.

 

[txbumper57]

When they put pointy heels on 'em that's when I'm jumpin' ship.

Aidios Amigosis! LOL! Just Kidding Al, These are both 2014 models. They have a Nice "V" shaped neck to match the "Pointy" Heel as well.

TX

 

[adorshki]

Aidios Amigosis! LOL! Just Kidding Al, These are both 2014 models. They have a Nice "V" shaped neck to match the "Pointy" Heel as well.

TX

Yeah but those are Orphea.
They don't count.
Because I'll never be able to afford one.
Or buy one new.
And thanks for reminding me of the other reason I never really paid attention to 'em.
:biggrin-new:

 

[txbumper57]

Yeah but those are Orphea.
They don't count.
Because I'll never be able to afford one.
Or buy one new.
And thanks for reminding me of the other reason I never really paid attention to 'em.
:biggrin-new:

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see any weasel out stipulations in your original statement, LOL! Also Cordoba does have the Orpheum Series on the schedule to be made in Oxnard sometime next year.

TX

 

[Westerly Wood]

Wait. Pointy heel on the Orfs? Oh no. Why didn't anyone tell me. This is terrible news.