Lipitor, who takes it?

adorshki

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Al just because we can does not make it right or healthy. We can breathe underwater too thanks to SCUBA but that doesn't make it natural. It's an unnatural action and we circumvent mother nature. In my worthless humble opinion of course.
Oddly enough I stumbled across a vegan forum while I was trying to verify my memory of the report of monkeys going after cow's milk, right from the teat. Those same terms cropped up: "right" and "unnatural".
While I respect your opinion, I humbly suggest that linking "right" with "natural" can yield no valid logical conclusions.
I could come from the strictly evolutionary perspective and say that ANYTHING that contributes to the survival of the species is by definition "right", circumvention of mother nature included.
WE'd have to agree on the definition of "right" to really dig into this one, but I'm not out to convert the world to my viewpoint, so not challenging your definition either.
In fact simply because I have a morbid fascination with the whole question of survival of the (our) species, and whether or not we can in fact "justify" using the planet's resources to our selfish ends at the expense of other species, I assume a philosophical premise that "Darwin" had no conscience, and thousands if not millions of species have come and gone and preyed upon each other to extinction, with nary a twinge of guilt, long we before we appeared on the scene.
So notions of "right" and "wrong" are purely human inventions as far as I can tell. And in fact THEY probably contributed to species survival themselves, or they wouldn't still be giving us so much trouble.
For analogy:
Space travel is unnatural. Does that mean we shouldn't do it?
Going even further, did you ever come across Arthur C. Clarke's concept of terra-forming?
I mean, before we use up this one, we'll move on out to Mars and begin modifying the ecosystem of a whole new planet with the goal of making it habitable for humans without need to rely on oxygen masks.
Domesticating cows is child's play compared to the next stage.
I can't wait for environmentalists to get ahold of that one.
Wonder what Elon Musk would do.
But again, I'm not trying to shout you down here, I just delight in positing these intellectual fibrous masses.
I did recall one more anecdote about milk, from thet memoirs of a Viet Nam era vet. It always stuck with me because I related to it so strongly.
The guy was assigned to a Long Range Reconnaissance Platoon, you know, the guys who were dropped w-a-a-a-y out in the boonies to sneak around for two weeks and hope they didn't get their a--es shot off before they could get extracted again.
Anyway, the oldtimer tells the new guy one of the things he should do to prep for the mission is stop drinking milk.
Because in the boonies the craving for it gets unbearable.
Anyway, as a final question and to try to get back on topic, I wonder if Lipitor reduces the effectiveness of milk?
 
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CA-35

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While I respect your opinion, I humbly suggest that linking "right" with "natural" can yield no valid logical conclusions.

Al I respect your opinion too.
Semantics. Right Wrong. Natural. Unnatural. My simple point is it wouldn't occur in the natural untouched unadulterated world. We wouldn't breathe underwater, we wouldn't space travel, we wouldn't fly. We do all these things because we have a thumb and engineering skills. Whether they are right or wrong makes no difference to me. They would not naturally occur. Water runs down hill and seeks it's own level, that's a natural occurrence whatever the reasons. If it appears with pressure at your house that's not a natural occurrence.

As you sip that cold cup of milk let's just agree to disagree.
 

adorshki

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One more fact (against my disposition for superficiality):
About 3/4 of the world is intolerant to lactose, the main carbohydrate in dairy products. Most people who are of a North European ancestry can digest lactose without problems.
And in the fermented milk products so well known in the rest of the world, the lactose is broken down by the fermentation. What I really wanna know is how the bone density of the Masai compares to the average Belgian.
Plainly, unlike other mammals, humans drink milk because we can also bake chocolate-chip cookies. :friendly_wink:
Somehow we will take that capability to Mars.
 

adorshki

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Al I respect your opinion too.
Semantics. Right Wrong. Natural. Unnatural. My simple point is it wouldn't occur in the natural untouched unadulterated world.
Ok final intellectual brian teaser, then I promise to drop it:
Humans themselves evolved in the natural untouched unadulterated world.
If we have the capability to make tools (and we now know that we're not the only animals to use tools) , wouldn't that make our tools "natural", too?
OR are we ourselves no longer natural if we use tools and our evolved intellectual capacities to modify our environment?
(Rhetorical question. No reply required)
:friendly_wink:
 

bluesypicky

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I keep tellin'em... we should never have acquired stability on our two back legs. This is what caused the brain to develop and that's when all the trouble began.
Alright people! On all four's everyone! Let's get back to a natural status shall we?!!
 

sailingshoes72

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Plainly, unlike other mammals, humans drink milk because we can also bake chocolate-chip cookies. :friendly_wink:

LOL I enjoyed that! Good one. :eagerness:

The most recent issue of National Geographic (May) had a short article on lactose intolerance in the "Explore" section. And I quote:

...the condition is commonly called lactose intolerance. It stems from a lack of lactase, an enzyme that breaks down the milk sugar lactose. Lactase is present in young children but weakens in most people after weaning, says evolutionary geneticist Pascale Gerbault.*** The enzyme continues to be produced, extending the ability to digest dairy only in smaller populations around the globe.

Though what sparked the digestion divide is uncertain, Gerbault says, one pattern may shed light: Milk tolerance in adults is more common in regions with a history of raising dairy mammals such as cattle, goats and sheep.

The article is accompanied by a map showing the regions of the world that are more or less lactose intolerant.

*** Another cousin or distant relative perhaps??? :highly_amused:

Bill
 

bluesypicky

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Ok final intellectual brian teaser, then I promise to drop it:

Whaaaaat????? Is it old age creeping in? C'mon man.... it's only page 11! Don't let us (and Joe in particular) down!
Soooo you were linking Lipitor to procreation challenges hmmm?
 

CA-35

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LOL I enjoyed that! Good one. :eagerness:

The most recent issue of National Geographic (May) had a short article on lactose intolerance in the "Explore" section. And I quote:

...the condition is commonly called lactose intolerance. It stems from a lack of lactase, an enzyme that breaks down the milk sugar lactose. Lactase is present in young children but weakens in most people after weaning, says evolutionary geneticist Pascale Gerbault.Bill

My point exactly.
The body is getting ready for a non-mothers milk diet and slows production of lactase based on that. If we were meant to continue to drink it females would not stop producing it after a certain amount of time after pregnancy and birth.
 

CA-35

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Stop messing with Mother Nature. Leave her alone How would you like everybody picking on you...........Oh sorry that's Britney.

 

adorshki

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What I wonder is how will we ship the McDonald arches over there? (Until we are able to produce them onsite)
ok another brilliant flash of sublime insanity:
No more "Soapy Tones".
We are now "the Martian McDonalds".
See? That didn't even take a week.
 

adorshki

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My point exactly.
The body is getting ready for a non-mothers milk diet and slows production of lactase based on that. If we were meant to continue to drink it females would not stop producing it after a certain amount of time after pregnancy and birth.
But that argument can only be deemed valid for human milk. IF one can demonstrate that in fact the decline in lactase production occurs whether one is weened from human milk or not.
Production of which is in fact hormonally regulated and which therefore can be controlled.
With hormonal tools. (No, I don't mean lust-crazed teenage boys. Although that may actually work in Britney's case)
Anyway, the obvious answer is that it should be illegal to consume milk if one has lactose intolerance, and then there'll be no shortage of it for those of us with northern european DNA.
Waitaminnit, I feel another band name comin' on.
 

adorshki

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What I wonder is how will we ship the McDonald arches over there? (Until we are able to produce them onsite)
Y'know I just realized the real question is "Will there be milk on Mars?"
How we gonna get the cows up there?
Chocolate chip cookies are absolutely useless without a carrier medium.
This is a big, big, problem.
Where's Musk when you need him?
 

CA-35

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That's it Al, you talked me into it.

I'm off to Publix to buy a gallon of whole milk (with all the fat no 2% garbage) and a package of Pepperidge Farms Mint Milanos. The NFL draft starts in 17 minutes.

Zei Gezunt...A Be Gezunt...Strength and Honor
 

bluesypicky

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But that argument can only be deemed valid for human milk. IF one can demonstrate that in fact the decline in lactase production occurs whether one is weened from human milk or not.
Scott and Al my friends, I will NOT let you down on this. I will get to the bottom of it.

I know we only have a limited female audience here, but it's worth a shot:
I am looking for a (or several) female(s) accepting to breast feed me while I measure my lactase production numbers. Please PM me. Anyone?
 

adorshki

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That's it Al, you talked me into it.
I'm off to Publix to buy a gallon of whole milk (with all the fat no 2% garbage)
Conscience dictates that I now warn you that milk is merely a gateway drug and even those who excercise great caution often find themselves seeking greater and greater thrills, eventually falling into the deadly grip of Khashk addiction, or its even deadlier analog, Qurt:
320px-Kasachischer_Kurt.jpg

Fermented milk even played a role in one of history's great defeats:
"The pastoral Scythians favored intoxicants were hashish and fermented mare's milk" and they drank themselves into a stupor. The Persians attacked while their opponents were incapacitated, defeating the Massagetae forces....
Yeh.
Mars just won't be Mars without milk.
Where do you think the caramel in a Mars Bar comes from?
 
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adorshki

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Scott and Al my friends, I will NOT let you down on this. I will get to the bottom of it.

I know we only have a limited female audience here, but it's worth a shot:
I am looking for a (or several) female(s) accepting to breast feed me while I measure my lactase production numbers. Please PM me. Anyone?
What're they s'posed to feed their babies, then?
Always about science with you, isn't it?
 
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