High prices of the new Guilds; maybe should shop around.

[taabru45]

Wool socks ... how do you get them to not itch so much?[/quote]

Undersocks work.... :lol: Steffan

 

[capnjuan]

Undersocks work.... :lol: Steffan

You Canadians are so smart ... you have an answer for every problem you create! :wink:

I bought a pair years ago ... I was out of town on assignment ... when I got back, I used them to clean brightwork on a boat ... where that 'abrasive' thing really helped ... sheew those things itched - I didn't know any Canadians back then :wink:

 

[bluesypicky]

I want to take this opportunity to thank all the heavy contributors, etc etc.... :lol:

It was nothing BP ... maybe we can now get back to work on bumping Post Count and the 'Nothing' thread ... you know ... threads with substance ... :wink:

OK John, but as for me, it won't be without a little tear in my eyes..... I'll miss the substance of this great one, around the new Guild prices versus Westerly conundrum.... :? :lol:

 

[FNG]

You Canadians are so smart ... you have an answer for every problem you create! :wink:


That one I am filing away for future use. Not necessarily for Canadians though. :lol:

 

[taabru45]

Long winters and good skooling helps......ya gotta learn your eh b sees in this wurld... :lol: Steffan

 

[taabru45]

You know......this thread has almost 8000 hits as of now.... :shock: :shock:
Steffan

 

[fronobulax]

You know......this thread has almost 8000 hits as of now.... :shock: :shock:
Steffan

And why would that be?

I look forward to a year or two from now when the market has changed and someone necros this thread to comment that their New Hartford Guild was better than any of the vintage ones they could find at the same or lower price point. (Ducks and grins in West's direction as he hits the dirt).

Edit: And I see I did push this over the edge to page 31...

 

[jgwoods]

Oh the day has already arrived, my now 13 month old NH Guild is "vintage" and sounding better than any.
8)

 

[adorshki]

Oh the day has already arrived, my now 13 month old NH Guild is "vintage" and sounding better than any.
8)

Quite seriously, since I've been suspected of obsessive tracking of my instruments' actual playing hours, how many actual hours of playing do you think are on yours? This is related to the old "Does a guitar really open up, and if so, how long does it take?" debate. (But I'm not looking to revive that one! :lol: )

 

[jgwoods]

Oh the day has already arrived, my now 13 month old NH Guild is "vintage" and sounding better than any.
8)

Quite seriously, since I've been suspected of obsessive tracking of my instruments' actual playing hours, how many actual hours of playing do you think are on yours? This is related to the old "Does a guitar really open up, and if so, how long does it take?" debate. (But I'm not looking to revive that one! :lol: )

I haven't had it six months yet, and I only played it part of the time when I got it up until about 3 months ago when I put everything else away- my Gibson j-185 and my J-50- and concetrated on finding out how good a guitar the Guild might be. I think it has about 100 hours on it now as the year ends.

Two things have happened in that time-
It "opened up" to some extent.
I got used to it and I pick it cleaner.

I think it's got more to give and I am looking forward to playing it for a long time.

 

[adorshki]

I think it's got more to give and I am looking forward to playing it for a long time.

Thanks JG. That was always one of the single biggest reasons I wanted to buy new. You'd know the COMPLETE history of the guitar including how much it's been played. Personally I believe a guitar NEEDS to be played, it doesn't get better just 'cause it's getting old. So it's interesting to actually be able to "Hear it grow."

 

[West R Lee]

I think it's got more to give and I am looking forward to playing it for a long time.

Thanks JG. That was always one of the single biggest reasons I wanted to buy new. You'd know the COMPLETE history of the guitar including how much it's been played. Personally I believe a guitar NEEDS to be played, it doesn't get better just 'cause it's getting old. So it's interesting to actually be able to "Hear it grow."

So let's talk for a moment about what might actually take place for a guitar to "open up"? Might it be that wood gets harder? Or that vibrations somehow wears a guitar in? How? How might vibration effect the woods in a guitar? Seriously? I'll be the first to admit that a 25 year old guitar might "open up", but I can't tell you how. I do know that one of the attributes of a nitro finish is supposed to be that it allows wood to breathe, does that mean a poly finished guitar will never "open up"?

West

 

[adorshki]

So let's talk for a moment about what might actually take place for a guitar to "open up"? West

The last time this subject was ripped to shreds ( :lol: ) several factors were brought up, most of which you hit on, and personally I think they all work together synergistically.
I suspect the single most important factor is how the vibration of playing can loosen up the glue joints, especially the top-to-sides join, allowing more freedom of top motion. That's why I think they NEED to be played to achieve full potential. Also why that tone generating gizmo (I forget its name) probably does help some guitars as some members have reported.
I think the other two main factors have a less noticable impact and are much more slowly "achieved": Real nitrocellulose lacquer DOES in fact dry out and crystallize as it ages which makes it more resonant. IS it really a big factor? The debate will probably rage on. :lol: And as the wood ages it doesn't neccessarily get harder but any residual resins present will also slowly crystallize and dry out and thus result in more resonant wood.
As for NCL "breathing", it's actually there to protect the wood from external environmental excesses like oil and water which will DEFINITELY dampen the wood's resonating ability, so I never got that part about it "breathing" and why that's supposed to be good. Yes it does expand and contract with the wood, just watch out for checking, and maybe that's what's meant by breathing.
Some stuff I've read implies a "moment" of top opening, and my D25 seemed to "open up" suddenly one afternoon, but I suspect it's a constant evolution for a well built and played instrument.
Incidentally when I had that "opening up" moment with my D25, it was a pretty darn warm summer day, like at least high 80's IIRC, so that in itself might have been making the glue a little more flexible that day. But I also know it had about 200-220 hours on it so maybe there is something to the "magic moment" thing.
Wasn't it Worked in Westerly who said he used to string up the new guitars and every once in a while one he thought was dud would wake up overnight and realize it was a guitar? So that's still a bit of a mystery to me. And I like a little mystery.
A final note on poly: It'll never "harden up" like ncl so the theory is that it will always muffle the tone to some degree, although it's probably going to be inaudible to most people.
Anyway it's a good time to refresh the topic for any newbies to the concepts.

 

[West R Lee]

So let's talk for a moment about what might actually take place for a guitar to "open up"? West

The last time this subject was ripped to shreds ( :lol: ) several factors were brought up, most of which you hit on, and personally I think they all work together synergistically.
I suspect the single most important factor is how the vibration of playing can loosen up the glue joints, especially the top-to-sides join, allowing more freedom of top motion. That's why I think they NEED to be played to achieve full potential. Also why that tone generating gizmo (I forget its name) probably does help some guitars as some members have reported.
I think the other two main factors have a less noticable impact and are much more slowly "achieved": Real nitrocellulose lacquer DOES in fact dry out and crystallize as it ages which makes it more resonant. IS it really a big factor? The debate will probably rage on. :lol: And as the wood ages it doesn't neccessarily get harder but any residual resins present will also slowly crystallize and dry out and thus result in more resonant wood.
As for NCL "breathing", it's actually there to protect the wood from external environmental excesses like oil and water which will DEFINITELY dampen the wood's resonating ability, so I never got that part about it "breathing" and why that's supposed to be good. Yes it does expand and contract with the wood, just watch out for checking, and maybe that's what's meant by breathing.
Some stuff I've read implies a "moment" of top opening, and my D25 seemed to "open up" suddenly one afternoon, but I suspect it's a constant evolution for a well built and played instrument.
Incidentally when I had that "opening up" moment with my D25, it was a pretty darn warm summer day, like at least high 80's IIRC, so that in itself might have been making the glue a little more flexible that day. But I also know it had about 200-220 hours on it so maybe there is something to the "magic moment" thing.
Wasn't it Worked in Westerly who said he used to string up the new guitars and every once in a while one he thought was dud would wake up overnight and realize it was a guitar? So that's still a bit of a mystery to me. And I like a little mystery.
A final note on poly: It'll never "harden up" like ncl so the theory is that it will always muffle the tone to some degree, although it's probably going to be inaudible to most people.
Anyway it's a good time to refresh the topic for any newbies to the concepts.

Thank you for taking the time Al......all good points I think. I'll say this, there are times I think it's very noticable just after I take a humidifier out of the soundhole as opposed to the guitar being relatively dry. A dry guitar always seems to sound better to me, but then we obviously don't want them too dry.

West

 

[adorshki]

A dry guitar always seems to sound better to me, but then we obviously don't want them too dry.
West

Right. And there's a distinction between the atmospheric humidity which easily passes in and out of the wood fibers and the oils and resins inside the cellulose fibers which leave voids as they dry out, this is what's supposed to increase the resonance. Stradivarius was supposed to have soaked his woods in brines for years to accelerate that action, leaching out the resins and oils through osmotic pressure and replacing with mineral salt content which rendered the wood more brittle and thus more resonant. Also special shellacs with a high content of calcium derived from shellfish like shrimp dissolved in it. Again, for brittleness/brightness of tone.
(Ed for sp. 1/4 am)

 

[jcwu]

So let's talk for a moment about what might actually take place for a guitar to "open up"?

It just means that some time ago, someone needed to sell a used guitar and used this line to make the ad more attractive, and it's stuck ever since.

 

[Nicky Techniques]

I did not take the time to read all 31 pages of this thread, but having just purchased a Tacoma 2007 f47mc, I'm wondering about a few things. Early yesterday morning, I went to my local music store to get John Pearse strings to try out, and I hung around a while and tried out a New Hartford acoustic to compare. I have never played any Guilds besides mine and this NH Guild, which was priced only about $500.00 more than what I paid for mine. It did not have electronics, so I presume the value is roughly equal to the Tacoma I bought; that is, unless I was robbed! I played this NH Guild for only a few minutes, scared to do any damage to it because of its impressive woodwork. It had an ebony fingerboard, gold-plated tuning machines, incredibly beautiful guitar to look at and to hold. I don't play very well in standard tuning, but I messed around a bit... I wasn't too sure about the sound. Firstly, it sounded "quiet", though it's possible the carpeted room I was playing in was deadening the sound. It seemed tame, mellow, not an arrogant guitar. I was curious. I went home and tried my guitar again, not using a pick just the same way I had tried out the NH. Mine was super-loud, rich, outlandish, not tacky though. Maybe I did get a good deal after all. So the woodwork isn't quite the caliber of the new Guilds... they're "made to be played", not gawked at, right? I guess I'm not a collector.... more utilitarian or something. Perhaps my Tacoma has done some of this "opening up" in its case, unplayed since 2007. Could that happen, or does opening up happen through playing? All I know is, I'm satisfied. I look forward to keeping this guitar in great shape, and play it as often as time permits. I have a feeling it'll be a good one, one day. I'm hoping I don't start collecting Guilds, if I strike it rich or whatever. I want to be content with what I've got. It seems to me that Tacoma might have been a bit of a "mini-golden age" for Guild. I would also wager that NH will also produce some great guitars. Maybe the NH Guild just needs to open up? As I said, my opinion is limited to comparing two Guilds.

 

[SFIV1967]

Can you remember which new one you played in the store?

All of those 8 listed here have golden tuners:

http://www.guildguitars.com/index.php/g ... ec4932402/

 

[Nicky Techniques]

I believe it was the d-55.... well I guess that narrows what I paid for mine (1800)
*amendment* unlikely that it was the d-55, as it was going new for 2300. I don't know for sure, my best guess is the d-50 standard, but I'm pretty sure that it had gold-plated tuning machines, not chrome. It was DEFINITELY from New Hartford, though. It also for sure had an ebony fretboard.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Nicky T and welcome to LTG. There's something to be said for guitars 'opening up' ... particularly the top as the finish dries out and, as it does, gets a tad thinner, more flexible, and vibrates a little more than does the top of a very new guitar. Some people put their guitars in front of speakers letting the air currents beat on the top and others buy machines that are supposed to induce a more supple top faster.

To get them to 'open up', others just talk gently to their new guitars: 'Tell me about yourself' ... 'what are your feelings?' ... 'has anyone ever been mean to you?' ... or ... 'do you have low self-esteem?' ... that kind of thing :wink:

Anyway, congratulations on your Tacoma Guild and, again, welcome to LTG.