1960 CF Martin + wanted

[capnjuan]

Maybe an MM tranny upgrade will get it to sound like its big brother? Hmm. . . for $806.00 I could get a nice SF Princeton Reverb, or for twice that much I could ring up Ole Zeke.

Another $300 for a transformer, new speaker, and premium tubes and someone would have $1,100 in a $400 amp

 

[tweedaddict]

absolutely hilarious!
where are you going to buy a martin 110 for $400?
I bought this martin you are referring to... and i think it was a bargain...3-600 on no-name vintage amps... a little more on a super rare,very collectors amp that happens to sound F'ing great also... Tonally they cook.. no comparison to the silvertone you mention...
perhaps on paper they are similar... it simply ends there.

 

[dklsplace]

...Tonally they cook...

You got the 110? Had you ever played through one of these before?

For you guys who have not had the pleasure, the quoted statement above pretty much sums it up.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi tweedaddict and congratulations on your new amp!

.. where are you going to buy a martin 110 for $400? ... 3-600 on no-name vintage amps

$400 is about the going price for Gibson GA5s and other single-ended 6V6 amps. I don't think anyone could buy a Martin amp for $400 and didn't suggest it was possible but, thanks, I did suggest that it would be a collector to buy this one. Fact is most single-ended amps in good condition sound pretty good. I guess the question I had in mind was, irrespective of collector interest, did it or would it sound twice as good as a GA5, Silvertone 1471/1481, or a kit-built Champ with a 6V6 running at 425 volts? What I mean is that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... why isn't it a duck? I agree that the Martin nameplate makes it worth more but I haven't seen a nameplate yet that could make an amp sound better. Congratulations again on your new amp and welcome to LTG! John

 

[Brown-Recluse]

I don't have a Martin 110, however, I have a bunch of the DeArmond equivalents. They are like a baby Marshall and are absolute screamers. They will crush just about any other single ended amp I have ever played through and are in a completely different class than any tweed champ style amp. I was hoping to get the Martin 110 to round out my collection as they are much rarer than the equivalent DeArmond.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi spiderman and welcome back; the images below represent a comparison between the Gibson GA5 c. mid 1950s (Schematic Here) and the auction pics of the Martin/DeA amp:

Differences: the Gibson uses a 47K negative feedback resistor and doesn't have a tone control nor a tone cap (blue box with colored circles top center above). In order to 'crush' another single-ended 6V6 amp, the Martin/DeA will need something to do it with; maybe that modestly over-sized output transformer would be enough, I don't really know. Electronically, the Martin/DeA R5 has little to distinguish itself from the otherwise pedestrian Gibson GA5.

I also know you are an avid collector and I'd be lying if I didn't wish I owned one of the more powerful models - especially those with the oversized output transformers. Best wishes, CJ

 

[Brown-Recluse]

I don't understand electronics and I don't pretend to. I'm guessing that the larger iron on the baby DeArmonds plays a significant role in making them really amazing little amps. There is nothing modest about it. I have one of the baby DeArmonds and a blackface Princeton Reverb handy and the OT on the DeArmond is huge by comparison to the Fender. The old line about an amp going to 11 really holds true with them.

 

[capnjuan]

... I'm guessing that the larger iron on the baby DeArmonds plays a significant role in making them really amazing little amps. I have one of the baby DeArmonds and a blackface Princeton Reverb handy and the OT on the DeArmond is huge by comparison to the Fender. The old line about an amp going to 11 really holds true with them.

Hi BR; nearly every amp design can trace its roots to the RCA Tube Manual and technical publications by Western Electric. After WW2, mfrs like RCA were trying sustain post-war sales and turned to developing commercial applications for their tubes which is why most single-ended amp circuits are so similar. A lot of hobbyists buy the Weber VST W022905 and /M $30 output transformers that look to be as large, or larger, than the R5 auction amp's OT and put them on Gibson GA1s / GA5s / GA8s, Sivertone/Airline 1471s, and Fender Champs.

I'm sure your DeA sounds great; I guess I'm wondering, at twice the cost of '50s/'60s single 6V6 student amps, whether (and how) they could sound twice as good. Maybe the OT is the answer but in any event, I hope you enjoy your DeA amps and that the buyer of this R5 enjoys his new amp too. John

 

[tweedaddict]

I'm not a collector, but just love cool sounding amps... ive owned hundreds, but currently own 3 amps.. i have owned 2-3 different martin/dearmond amps before and played a 110/r5 before... i was SHOCKED at how this thing sounded... they come with a wimpy speaker from the factory, change that and they really give it up... and for 800... heck... ill take one anyday of the week... i do regret selling the dead mint dearmond r15t I had, but that went for silly money and helped pay the man... under a grand for a vintage BOO teak amp thats rare as rocking horse shit is a bargain in my book, and the bonus is that they sound friggin fantastic.

 

[capnjuan]

... I'm sure your DeA sounds great... I hope ... the buyer of this R5 enjoys his new amp too...

Hi TA; next time you go looking for the same thing but don't want to pay as much, you might consider a Gibson GA5 with an up-sized Weber output transformer. Congratulations on your new amp! John

 

[Brown-Recluse]

I just checked the specs on the Weber and it is upsized. It may appear as large or larger than the DeArmond's, however, it's still smaller than that in the baby DeArmond. The DeArmond's transformer is more than a half inch taller and three quarters of an inch wider. It's larger than the Weber in every dimension. Both the output and power transformers in the baby DeArmond are larger than those in my Blackface Princton Reverb.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi BR: well, there you have it - everything you need to justify paying $800-$1,000 for a $400 amp: apparently the OT is a little bigger than an aftermarket replacement. Works for me. Best wishes, John

 

[capnjuan]

Martin 112T on eBay Auction Link $2,990 MIN. Auction text sez it's 'Class A' ... it isn't Class A, it's twin push/pull 6V6s. Circuit includes PACs .. packaged circuits ... potted sets of caps and resistors for input, coupling, and phase inversion. Foot-switched tremolo relies on a varistor (part ID#: Globar 331 BNR-7). I have a schematic for it if anyone's interested ... PM with email addie. John

 

[capnjuan]

Bump: sold $3,450 :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[dapmdave]

Bump: sold $2,450 :shock: :shock: :shock:

$3,450 ??

What makes that amp so valuable?

Dave

 

[capnjuan]

Bump: sold $2,450 :shock: :shock: :shock:

$3,450 ?? What makes that amp so valuable?

Hi Dave; one day, I'll start reading what I type ... On the value question ... you'd probably have to plow all the way through this thread .... and wait for an owner or two to answer your question. Our BB owner/admin DKL has one that he said he paid peanuts for ... arguably the best amp deal reported on this BB to date. They are rare and, at least of the eBay models, you almost never see them in tatted condition. The Tonequest/Clarksdale re-issue, discussed Here and linked on the first page of this thread. The article says that the transformers shown below - made by Mercury Magnetics - are dupes of the original Martins. The output transformer on the left:

..... is about the size of one of the output transformers shown below (far left and right) on a Dynaco ST70 - 2XEL34 each channel, 35wpc ... within limits and as far as OTs are concerned, size counts no matter what she says:

So .... they have big iron. The larger the OT, the less the propensity for saturation which contributes to audible distortion; they are hi-fi quality OTs.

Internal view from the TQ article; amp in pic is a 112 ... not a 112T ... no trem; circuit board on the right is input and coupling - the Martin schematic says there are two boards (EP-9098 and EP-9099) but the one in the pic done with only one board. The red potted assembly is EP-9097, the phase inverter. It's just a guess but the potting might keep the circuit from picking up stray EMF, eddy currents, gamma rays, STDs ... whatever and contribute to quiet operation ... a worthwhile characteristic also cherished in the hi-fi community.

The 112T model with tremolo is bias-modulating and runs the oscillator at an eye-catching 300VDC on the plate of V6B. Also has a varistor between the trem circuit and depth control; not commonly found. Except as noted and with all due respect to M/DeA 112 owners, the circuit looks like a Gibson GA18 / Silvertone 1482 except the mfr went out of their way to spend some real money on the OT; apart from the power transformer, the most expensive item in the amp. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the schematic, PM with email address. John

 

[valcotone]

Bump: sold $2,450 :shock: :shock: :shock:

$3,450 ??

What makes that amp so valuable?

Dave

Simply put, it's extremely rare and is reported to sound extremely good!

 

[dklsplace]

$3,450 ??

What makes that amp so valuable?

Dave

Simply put, it's extremely rare and is reported to sound extremely good!

The reports aren't exaggerated. They do sound extremely good! This is one I said would stick around, but if prices keep going up, I may have second thoughts........but not yet. 8)

 

[dapmdave]

So, at least in this case, quality wins out. Nice to know.

Thanks, guys.

Dave

 

[EFR]

Dearmond Trannies

Does anyone know what the primary impedance is on the tranny for the RT15/112?

Also the tranny on the RT5/110 is larger than normal as well, is it gapped for single ended use, or is it an oversize PP put into single ended operation? If that's the case it could have bearing on getting that tone if DC core saturation is part of the equation...

-EFR