1960 CF Martin + wanted

[Brown-Recluse]

Here's a surprise: I seached the completed listings on ebay; The R15T apparantly sold for $7601! Is this for real?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

The 2nd highest bidder on this amp was aussiedoctor. He has paid what I would consider to be some extrememly high prices for very clean Martin and Dearmond amps over the last year or so.

 

[dklsplace]

Had someone email me in the last few hours saying it didn't show up in any of his searches for the Martin & DeArmond amps. :?

I've relisted, added additional categories & sub title, added worldwide shipping & changed to a fixed price listing with BO option. Here we go again.

 

[capnjuan]

Auction looks great; good luck Don! J

 

[CLXXXAG]

I was a bit surprised to be led back to this Forum for this topic (I joined to get involved in the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Guild cover article fracas in late ought-seven), but I'm going to try to restart the Martin/DeArmond amp thing.

About 10 years ago on eBay, I nabbed--mostly from the standpoint of the novelty of a Martin amp--a 112 project. Worth $200+ as a curio. Needs restoration, but recent developments suggest the headroom I have in getting this fixed up.

Not all that much wrong, despite appearances: humidity has peeled the tolex and distorted the wood somewhat in places, some rust in the chassis, dusty, no fuse, handle 95% missing.

I look forward to getting this fixed up and hearing what the buzz is about. (No ideas of selling at this point.)

 

[alpep]

i have the chassis to a 2 knob version of that amp laying around.
does anyone know if it will run on 4 ohms?
I have an idea for a crazy project using 2 x 208 jbl's

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Triple X and welcome back. The AG article was a barn-burner. With all due respect to you and the other members, I'd put AG in the same class as Motor Trend or Car and Driver ... neither have ever featured a car they didn't like.

Congratulations on your Martin/DeA amp. Without trying to guess what your amp might be worth and with one recent exception, price is (usually) proportional to condition/authenticity ... if you plowed your way through this thread, you know somebody paid over $7,000 for this museum-grade DeA:

One of the posters in this thread pointed to the size of the DeA output transformers as a contributing factor in their tone. Below; a pic from the ToneQuest article on the amps and an attempt to recreate their well-regarded tone. The larger the OT, the less it gets saturated and the less it contributes to distortion. Pic of Mercury Magnetics' dupe of an original DeA OT on the left ... larger than most/all OTs in the amp's class:

Another distinguishing feature of these amps is the use of PECs .. packaged electronic components ... the lumpy red thing in the left center ... you have the same PEC in your amp (identified on the M/DeA 112t schematic as EP 9097-1 'Inverter'). The potting keeps the component leads from picking up/amplifying low levels of electronic hash in the chassis ... and prevents prying eyes from ID'ing the design / parts / values without buying the amp:

In the pic above on the right, M/DeA used another PEC (EP-9098) for input. It is, part-for-part, identical to the front-end of Gibson's venerable GA5 (see previous pages). The input board is common to both the 112t and R25t.

Below, in its tremolo amps, M/DeA used a part that no other major manufacturer used in that application; a variable resistor / varistor at the output of the trem oscillator ... I don't know how it works. Also, M/DeAs use two stages ...two tube halves ... one complete tube for trem in the 112t and R25t compared to one stage/tube half in Fender, Gibson, and nearly everybody else offering trem in amps; just guessing but I think it would make the trem juicier ... more organic:

There are a number of household glues you can use to tab the tolex back down. It isn't my amp but if I got it passing a signal, I'd replace that speaker with a Weber 12A125 / Jensen P12Q equivalent and treat myself to an expensive Telefunken / Siemens / Mullard 12AX7 for V1, a pair of vintage GE black-base/smoked-glass 6V6s, and a glass of Stoly over ice. Good luck with your amp. CJ


I have the schematics for the 112t and R25t; PM with your email address and I'll send them to you.
cj

 

[capnjuan]

Early '60s DeArmond R15T on deBay in reasonably good condition; tweedish design ... 3 X 12AX7, 2 X 6V6, 5Y3 rectumizer, and original-looking P12R speaker. Chrome on the control panel in vgc ... no footswitch shown ... maybe the speed control has a set of on/off contacts on it?

No view of the output transformer ... no can say whether it's the oversized version found on the Martin/DeAs. Note that the inputs are p-t-p not using that little board found in the Martin/DeAs and that the inverter circuit is on a little board and not in the potted Martin/DeA PEC.

Will be interesting to see if this one holds its own pricewise with the Martinized models.

 

[Brown-Recluse]

The control panel on this one is labeled C.F. Martin and is chromed like all of the Martins I have ever seen. The tolex on it is the textured type found on the DeArmonds rather than that found on the Martins, however, it is black instead of the normal DeArmond color. It may have been painted black as there are some spots where it looks like the normal DeArmond color is showing through. The grill cloth looks like it might be the normal DeArmond style cloth that has been severely sun bleached. It does have one of the little potted parts boards hanging down in the right hand corner of the chassis, when viewed from behind. Also, there is a second jack positioned between the speaker jack and the baffle board that is probably for the tremelo foot switch. The listing says that the speaker is a P12P.

It's as if they had just enough left over parts from a DeArmond and a Martin amp to complete one more amp. Parts is parts.

 

[capnjuan]

... The listing says that the speaker is a P12P.

Hi BR; I missed the FS jack but don't think that's a P12P ... frame color for one where the Ps are usually silver, and if the speaker's original, I don't think DeA would go to all that trouble and then put a lesser cost/quality speaker in it ... particularly when it doesn't look like magnet size would interfere with anything ... the 'P' could be an 'R' with the painted leg of the 'R' missing.

Note that the inputs are p-t-p not using that little board

That's not right ... there's one there but instead of mounting in flush on the vertical chassis, it's flying ... in the last pic in the upper right-hand corner of the chassis.

 

[Brown-Recluse]

ebay bidder aussiedoctor did it again, once again he was willing to pay more than anyone else for an unusual DeArmond/Martin amp. He bid more than twice than the next highest bidder.

Also, the seller was certain that the blue Jensen P12P speaker was original. I have a couple at home and here are some links to a couple of other blue ones:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0462895415

 

[Brown-Recluse]

aussiedoctor buys another one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... fresh=true

 

[MikeHutchison]

R5 in showroom condition, as long as it didn't work there.

Hi,

I hope nobody minds my re-opening a very old thread.

I bought this amp in a yard sale last week.

It's an R5, in virtually showroom condition, with original cover, original instructions, even the original retail hang-tag.

It doesn't play right now: just a loud buzz the comes on gradually as the tubes warm up. I've only had it powered up for about 30 seconds.

I'd love to hear some opinions on what to do with it. I'm capable troubleshooting and/or rebuilding the circuit. To what extent is that appropriate? I want to maintain its value as well as is possible.

1) Is it detrimental to the value to use axial capacitors instead of the can, for which I don't think a replacement is even available?
2) I don't like 2-prong power cords, and for my own use would replace with a 3 prong, properly grounding, death cap out etc... is this a no-no as far as a collector's item?
3) How much preventative maintenance is wise? My background is in Organs and typically it's thought good practice to pro-actively replace plate resistors, coupling caps, etc - but collectibility concerns don't come into play quite as much there.

I'll be happy to post pictures of the back, inside, etc... scan of the instructions and schematic, whatever... just ask.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[fronobulax]

Re: R5 in showroom condition, as long as it didn't work there.

Greetings and welcome. I chose to split your message off and make a new topic. I think you'll get more exposure. I hope the title is all right. Sometimes my sense of humor comes across as pretty warped.

The late CapnJuan was pretty much the amp expert. default has been doing a good job growing into those shoes so hopefully he'll be along soon.

The only question I feel qualified to express an opinion is the three prong power cord. I think just about everyone here would say safety trumps original condition. Further more if you didn't fix the problem, potential buyers who could not do the repair themselves would probably discount what they would pay by the expected cost of the repair. So I say do it and do it soon.

 

[Default]

Re: R5 in showroom condition, as long as it didn't work there.

Hi,

I hope nobody minds my re-opening a very old thread.

I bought this amp in a yard sale last week.

It's an R5, in virtually showroom condition, with original cover, original instructions, even the original retail hang-tag.

It doesn't play right now: just a loud buzz the comes on gradually as the tubes warm up. I've only had it powered up for about 30 seconds.

I'd love to hear some opinions on what to do with it. I'm capable troubleshooting and/or rebuilding the circuit. To what extent is that appropriate? I want to maintain its value as well as is possible.

1) Is it detrimental to the value to use axial capacitors instead of the can, for which I don't think a replacement is even available?
2) I don't like 2-prong power cords, and for my own use would replace with a 3 prong, properly grounding, death cap out etc... is this a no-no as far as a collector's item?
3) How much preventative maintenance is wise? My background is in Organs and typically it's thought good practice to pro-actively replace plate resistors, coupling caps, etc - but collectibility concerns don't come into play quite as much there.

I'll be happy to post pictures of the back, inside, etc... scan of the instructions and schematic, whatever... just ask.

Thanks,

Mike

Wow, why can't I find these yard sales? :lol: Pics and scans of the paperwork would be very cool and appreciated! Te can caps are available, possibly in the values that are in the amp. In schemo I have the values are 10-15-20. We can probably get "close enough for government work", new. old ltg thread with that schemo. my call on the amp really depends on whether it's a keeper or if you want to sell it to a collector. Me, three prong plug, clean the pots and jacks. Change out the cancap. Sub in some known-good tubes, just to make sure. Right now, it's passing a signal. I'd do only those four things first, then see how it sounds. I wouldn't start wholesale replacement of parts, that would kill the value. Frono, could I request that this thread be rejoined to the original thread? even though there are a bunch of missing pics, maybe we should keep all the information in one place?

 

[fronobulax]

Re: R5 in showroom condition, as long as it didn't work there.

Frono, could I request that this thread be rejoined to the original thread? even though there are a bunch of missing pics, maybe we should keep all the information in one place?

Done, although there ought to be a five yard penalty for questioning the judgement of a Moderator. :wink:

 

[Default]

What brand of scotch do you like again? Might be better than five yards.

 

[fronobulax]

What brand of scotch do you like again? Might be better than five yards.

Actually you get a couple of free passes. Something about sharing #8 or #18 in Philia.

 

[Brown-Recluse]

Mike, I just sent you an email. I would definitely not be proactive and start replacing parts in the name of preventative maintenance. Do the very least needed to get it working now and keep the original parts that you remove. Since you are apparently capable of doing the work yourself, you can always make any additional repairs in the future.

I also sent you the name of my friend and amp-tech, Skip Simmons, who has worked on at least a couple dozen Dearmond and Martin amps. He was working on what appeared to be an early prototpe R5 a couple of weeks ago and currently has one of my R25T amps that was custom made with an additional Mic channel. If you contact him, tell him Louie sent you.

The baby Dearmond and Martins are amazing screamers. Enjoy it.

 

[MikeHutchison]

Thanks to everybody who's responded. Advice heeded and will be followed. I'll repay the favor with some good pictures :wink:

My music computer died a couple of weeks ago, but once I get it back up and running, I'll put up some sound files as well.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[taabru45]

Re: R5 in showroom condition, as long as it didn't work there.

Frono, could I request that this thread be rejoined to the original thread? even though there are a
bunch of missing pics, maybe we should keep all the information in one place?

Done, although there ought to be a five yard penalty for questioning the judgement of a Moderator. :wink:

Perhaps a five yard sale penalty... :roll: Steffan