X160 Rockabilly versus Starfire III?

[Sarah93003]

I would love some opinions on this. I would like to have a guitar that has a great Rockabilly sound. In my reading/research it seems the secret ingredients are two DeArmond pickups, Bigsby tail piece, through a Fender tube amp. If I am correct, I've narrowed it down to searching for and early year (1961-1963) Starfire III or the X160 Rockabilly. Interestingly, there is a music store about an hour from me that has a brand new 1994 X160 that they've held on to and never sold. So, it is new old stock, I guess. I've read that the quality wasn't the greatest during the Baldwin years and that it has been improving lately with Fender. I'm guessing that the 1994 X160 was made during the Baldwin years. The store is asking $1,900 for it and I'm sure they'll negotiate. However, I know that I can get a really nice SF3 for that kind of money, so I don't know which way to go really. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

thank you, Sarah

 

[GAD]

Those guitars aren't made anymore, so there's no quality to improve sadly.

1994 they were still made in Westerly RI, which many consider to be "better" since it was the Guild factory with the Guild workers etc., though if you read deeper, the factory had issues with humidity and such. That being said, I have a 1999 X-170 that is a magnificent instrument.

If I had a local NOS X-160 Rockabilly near me, I'd be buying it. $1900 is a bit high, though finding a NOS one is probably pretty rare these days. Honestly I'd say $1900 is high for a SFIII too. I recently paid $1200 for an X-170. It all depends on the year and condition though.

GAD

 

[fronobulax]

In my uninformed opinion, there is much to be said for the bird in hand. The chances of "buyer's remorse" seem to me to be much greater when the buyer forked over the money before playing the guitar. Thus being able to play it in the store counts for something. So I'd suggest you go play the X160 and be prepared to come home with it if you like it. Unless you're one of those people who will never sell a guitar and thinks they can only own one, there is always the chance to add a Starfire to the stable when the right one comes along.

Notice how you get an answer that kind of makes sense but never really addresses your question which is which is likely to be better for a style of music/playing?

Q: What did the bass player (see sig and remember that I can't play the D25) get on his IQ test?
A: Drool.

 

[AlohaJoe]

The X-160s are very cool... nice neck and definitely rockabilly. I think they're rarer than the Starfires, and finding a NOS one at a local store makes it a very attractive deal... no shipping (or the attendant potential nightmares of eBay) AND you get to look it over and play before you buy. The Westerly Guitars were largely great, so my vote is that if you play it and like it, grab it, but I'd offer them $1600 (incl the case) and be ready to negotiate a bit, but that's just me.

Of course, this advice is coming from someone who wants to buy them all. :lol: I still suffer from the "ooooh shiny! syndrome" so I have some nice guitars, but one of the simplest and plainest ones is the one I keep picking up because when I play it, I seem to play better, and it's really all about the music, right? It's the guitar/human match that counts, not just the guitar. Some decisions are better made with your heart than your head.

Oh boy, I do ramble on, don't I?

Just go play it for a while... if it speaks to you, you love it and it fits your hands and makes you want to play more, it's the right guitar.

 

[Default]

I've read that the quality wasn't the greatest during the Baldwin years and that it has been improving lately with Fender. I'm guessing that the 1994 X160 was made during the Baldwin years.

Just to clarify, Guild never had any association with Baldwin. What you are thinking of is Gretsch brand guitars. Gretsch was originally owned by the Gretsch family, sold to Baldwin in the late sixties and Fred Gretsch bought the name back in the 90's IIRC. Gretsch had spotty quality control at times, although I had a Baldwin era Country Gentleman for quite a while. It was a beautiful guitar and played like the proverbial buttah, but I could never come to terms with the Filtertron pickups. I sold it to a buddy of mine, right before the prices crashed, but he's in love with it and wouldn't sell it back for any price.

The consensus from folks who worked at Guild as well players, is there was no era where they were consistently putting out lousy Guilds. Some may be better than others, but no particular years to avoid like the plague.
That being said, since you are close to the X-160, go play it and see if it floats your boat. I have an old Guitar Player review of that particular model, and they said that it really came to life with 11's.

 

[Sarah93003]

Thank you Default for the clarification. My boo-boo. I've been reading a lot about the Gretsch's and Guilds lately and got all confused! I have a friend with a Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins and she really likes and of course thinks that's the best for Rockabilly. I am partial to Guild so I'd like to find the best guitar for that sound in a Guild if I can. I have a Gretsch 5120 that I really like but it's more because how it feels in my hands, etc. I'm going to visit this guy with the X160 and see how I like it. If it fits me well then I'll probably buy it. He also told me the case that comes with it is a $200 case which originally came with the guitar. Would you think that the X160 is a better choice than the SF3?

thankss, Sarah

 

[Default]

"best" is whatever feels and sounds better for you. I like the thinline electrics. It's a personal preference that probably originated in the looks of the thing, but practically speaking, works for me. I don't play rockabilly, so I'm happy with humbuckers. It might be easier to get an X-160 to test drive.
That's not to say that I wouldn't jump at the chance to own an early SFIII, just go to youtube and look for any Seatsniffers video. Walter is wailing on his SF and it sounds 'billy to me.

You can also try switching out the pickups on the 5120 if you don't like the sound. Seymour Duncan makes a single coil pickup called a Phat Kat that I've heard good things about. Guitar Fetish also has good (and inexpensive) pickups.

 

[dklsplace]

...I have a friend with a Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins and she really likes and of course thinks that's the best for Rockabilly. I am partial to Guild so I'd like to find the best guitar for that sound in a Guild if I can...

It was my quest for my very own 6120 that ultimately brought me to Guild. The rest may not yet be history, but 8 years later, LTG isn't doing too badly! 8)

A '94 X-160 may not be the Rockabilly model.

 

[matsickma]

Yes. An early 1990 X160 is not a Rockibilly model. It is the scaled down version of the X170. The X160 with a bigsby in the early 1990's is known as a X161. It had a pair of HB-1 humbuckers and independent vol + tone for each pickup. It had a dot inlay fret marker neck, no binding and chrome hardware. Today they are more rare than X170's but they were made to be a moreaffordable S170. The Rockibilly model is a late 1990 early 2000's X150 size guitar with a master vol + tone, chrome hardware and DeArmond Model 2000 pickups.

M

 

[Sarah93003]

Can you tell by looking at this picture? It doesn't have dots on the fretboard. I don't know how to tell the difference of the pickups by looking at them so I don't know what these are. Any ideas?

Sarah

 

[gilded]

Cool looking guitar. Not trying to psych you out, but you gotta wonder why 15 years of guitar players didn't buy the guitar..............

 

[jp]

Sarah,
If I'm not mistaken, the X-160 came with Dearmond 2000 pickups. There are several different Dearmond pickups that all look the same at a quick glance. There are slight differences in visual detail and sound, though players here seem to like them all for different reasons.

Like Default, I also favor thinline archtop electrics, but if you like it go for it. You can always snag a Starfire and get sell the least favorite later.

 

[AlohaJoe]

Cool looking guitar. Not trying to psych you out, but you gotta wonder why 15 years of guitar players didn't buy the guitar..............

That's a good question Gilded. The answer is probably because it wasn't really there. NOS is one way some retailers "fluff up the story" when they get used product in like-new condition. Letting brand new inventory sit around in a retail store for 15 years, gradually getting older and more used is just not believable. A store run that way won't last 15 years.

It really doesn't matter if it's used but like new or NOS if you like it and the price is right.

Anyway, it sure is purty!
- Joe

 

[caveman]

Hi Sarah,

I have a Westerly made X160 and use it for rockabilly and sorts. I believe it's a wonderful guitar, use it all the time. An original dearmond vintage SFIII is mighty fine also, but will sound a lot more 'rockin'', those old dearmond pickups have huge output and are hard to keep clean. The newer dearmonds are more twangy, and the deep body of the X160 gives some extra low-end. I also own a fifties T100D, with Franz (P90 like) pickups. They are very similar to the SF III and these are very versatile guitars, a little darker, bluesier sounding pickups, but very suitable for rockabilly as well. Check board member Walter Broes' band the Seatsniffers for that sound (played incredibly well, on a big body X175 with Franz pickups), or my band on http://www.myspace.com/motelmen for some examples of my X160. (played a little more rudimentary, but we're working on some fresh material as we speak ).

I do think 1900 USD is quite high for a x160, seen them go for a lot cheaper, usually 1200-1500 usd.

Good luck with your search, and welcome aboard

 

[Default]

Somehow, I missed the price. :? caveman is correct, that's pretty high.

 

[matsickma]

The story from the dealer is inflated for one simple reason: The Rockabilly model shown in that picture (with deArmond 2000 pickups) could not have been in the store for 15 years. That model was released near the end of the Westerly days. I suspect 1998 may have been the first year of the Rockbilly model so 10 years max.

The Rockibilly model often sell on ebay in the $1100 to $1500 range. I saw a used on one like that shown at a Guitar Center near Philadelphia about 3 years ago and they wanted $1300.

In my experiance the thin line Starfire 1/2/3's and T100's are pretty prone to hollowbody feedback. I think they have very little soundboard bracing. I suspect the Rockabilly model may actually be less prone to feedback than the SF1/2/3 and T100's. (I've sold a T100, S302 and SF3 primarily because of the feedback issue.)

Anyone else have experiance on the feedback issue.

M

 

[workedinwesterly]

Just a side note:
the pickups on the late 90's X160 are so-called dearmonds ( after fender bought dearmond and made their own version) . Check them out carefully to see if you really like the sound. The feeling in the factory at the time was that those pickups were terrible....nothing close to the original dearmonds other than the looks.

 

[gilded]

Seymour Duncan has some reissue DeArmond 200s for sale, under custom pickups, I do believe. The real ones pop up, every now and then on eBay. I haven't priced them lately, but I've seen 'em sell for $500 a matched pair.

 

[Century Bob]

I`m a 160 fan. The one pictured was on ebay for a looong time. Top of the market I think would be about 15-1600. They are feedback prone. I have solved it on two different 160s by adding a simple sound post under the bridge. Its cheep and easy to do. The pickups are ok. The nice thing is that there are lots of options to replace them with without altering the guitar. GFS and TV jones come to mind first.
The Westerly Guilds and Corona Guilds are both very good quality. The later Corona 160s are smaller in size than the Westerlys. You cant see it in pic but they are about 1/2to 3/4 inches smaller and thinner.

 

[Default]

You beat me to the soundpost idea, CB. Mine does feed back easily, but since I don't gig, I find low volume feedback to be useful. :lol: