Where are the Guilds, where are the dealers?

fronobulax

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devellis said:
I'm surprised to learn that they're producing 3000 guitars a year
Just for the record when I specifically asked what the production numbers were at LMG 2010 I was told that they were confidential/proprietary. So unless someone can vouch for a number as being direct from Fender, understand that any production numbers are guesses.

I figure the plant operates 5 days a week for 50 weeks of the year, as a SWAG. That's 250 work days. My personal guess from LMG 2010 is that the output was maybe 5-10 per day. We were there for most of the day and I never saw one completed. So my high end estimate is 2500/year.

Now the Fender web site lists over 603 dealers. So if the production SWAG is right and the production is split evenly, that's about four New Hartford Guilds per dealer per year. If I am counting models correctly there are potentially 18 different models to stock. Actually 8 is more realistic if the GSR and DTAR versions are counted with the "stock" version, but even that says that it is unrealistic to expect every dealer to have every model in stock. Furthermore since the SWAG is per year it is easy to imagine a dealer getting one Guild every three months so there might not ever be more than one in stock.

If I were allocating production I would first ship to dealers who had a customer who had already put money down on the guitar and only when that backlog had eased would I start shipping to dealers who were buying "on speculation" just to have something to display and demo.

I hear general whining about Fender not doing enough for the brand and I won't address that. But the numbers do speak to the complaints about no Guilds to compare and no Guilds locally. And what they say to me is that production has to go up and the number of dealers has to go down if an average dealer is to have multiple specimens of the same model. If the number of dealers goes down then the none locally complaints will get louder. And we know all dealers are not created equal and for every Union or Elderly or Streetsounds or other flagship dealer that gets a bigger allotment, some other dealer is going to be left wanting.

Fender is aware of this. They discussed increasing production at LMG 2010 and alluded to strategies to weed and rebuild the dealer network. So it seems to me that what is really lacking here is patience. Any way you look at it, it will take time to get all Guilds into all stores. GASsing for a NH Guild does not lend itself to patience.
 

fronobulax

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Double post, but...

If you go to the Guild date list and look at some of the years where there are first and last serial numbers listed you will see that production of Guilds was considerably higher than the numbers we are estimating for New Hartford. A bit over 10,000 instruments were made in 1971 and almost 25,000 in 1978. There were about 40 models in 1997 and at least 9,700 guitars made. This number does not include D4's and D25s. The dating table suggests that there were 350,000 or each of those models made and that is clearly not correct. Just one more data point that suggests the production needs to ramp up by a factor of 4 or 5 before Guilds are as prevalent in stores as they were 30+ and 10+ years ago.
 

Dr. Spivey

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Another thing to consider is the fact that we know production at CT ramped up very slowly, one model at a time. This is partly responsible for the lack of guitars for sale right now. I also think that Fender is holding back production a bit to see what happens with the economy. I would imagine most guitar manufacturers are doing this to some extent, at least in the mid-upper price range. Some dealers really are only interested in pushing GAD's, because that price range is where most of their business is with all brands.

I can understand FMIC moving slowly at this point, but it is frustrating because they are both the cause of, and the potential solution to Guild's problems right now. Lots of decisions to be made and time will tell.

The one New Hartford guitar I've played, was outstanding. I really think that getting more of them into dealers showrooms is the best thing they can do to promote the brand.
 

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fronobulax said:
Double post, but...

If you go to the Guild date list and look at some of the years where there are first and last serial numbers listed you will see that production of Guilds was considerably higher than the numbers we are estimating for New Hartford. A bit over 10,000 instruments were made in 1971 and almost 25,000 in 1978. There were about 40 models in 1997 and at least 9,700 guitars made. This number does not include D4's and D25s. The dating table suggests that there were 350,000 or each of those models made and that is clearly not correct. Just one more data point that suggests the production needs to ramp up by a factor of 4 or 5 before Guilds are as prevalent in stores as they were 30+ and 10+ years ago.

Good observations Frono. I know that Westerly's production capacity was probably far more than New Hartford's will ever be. It still doesn't excuse the utter absence of US-made Guild guitars to where the general public actually lives. If Guild is serious about selling guitars, they need to be in suburbia somehow. OK, not GC for obvious reasons, but why are there still none (even GADs) at my local Sam Ash? They told us all that at the end of April, right?
 

fronobulax

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twocorgis said:
It still doesn't excuse the utter absence of US-made Guild guitars to where the general public actually lives. If Guild is serious about selling guitars, they need to be in suburbia somehow.

Well, I was using the numbers to explain things. It is what it is, and I don't think there is anything to be excused. :wink:

I have to wonder if Guild management agrees with you that the biggest boost in sales will come from suburbia. Just look at the stores that got the 20 bearclaw GSR F-30s.

I will note that I, at least, have been ignoring GADs but that might not be the right thing to do if we are trying to discern Fender's marketing strategy and suggest alternatives.
 

chazmo

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Hey, Bill... Keep me posted on what you do. You might ask Carl if he's planning to order any other Guilds for the store.

There's a music store in Scituate (Scituate Music Center, I think???) which sells Guilds, but I don't what what their stock is. Couple years ago they still had a Westerly D-55 in the store. I think they only show their stuff by appt. only, but I'm not sure.

Also, I wonder if the Guitar Emporium in Lexington carries Guilds.

Best wishes.
 

Brad Little

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Bill Ashton said:
Local store has a nice 512. Plays good, sounds good. Not stellar grab-you-by-the-throat fantastic, but a nice guitar. Its the top of the line. But if I have to give up something to get something, I want to make sure its THE one. So it would be nice to compare (in a noiseless setting!) a 512 with a 412 and perhaps a GAD or a Standard (hint, hint!).
Bill, how far are you from Rock Hill NY? Steve's Music Center there has a 412 and 512 listed on its website http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/. I don't know if they are NH or not, but at one time I was in contact with him about a NH D-55. It's only a couple hours from me here in Southern CT, so might be a day trip for you to check out if they are of interest to you.
Brad
 

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Brad, sorry I didn't see your post, I think we were typing at the same time.

I added NY to my list to view, and for some reason I left off Rock Hill...better than four hours one way for me, but you are right, he seems to have a pair of Guild 12's...could be worth the trip if SWMBO wants to take a ride... :lol:

Probably not the best person to have with me, huh? :roll:
 

Brad Little

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Bill Ashton said:
I added NY to my list to view, and for some reason I left off Rock Hill...better than four hours one way for me, but you are right, he seems to have a pair of Guild 12's...could be worth the trip if SWMBO wants to take a ride... :lol:
Let me know if you decide to go, especially if it's on an upcoming weekday-I have three weeks off starting on the 17th and wouldn't mind taking a trip, especially to play some Guilds.
Brad
 

chazmo

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Bill Ashton said:
ME doesn't carry Guild...

But he has a bunch of Bourgeois, Collings...and one Huss and Dalton :D :D
I think you need to call me when you take a visit over there, Bill! :D I've never been, but I've heard great things.
 

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Chazmo said:
Bill Ashton said:
ME doesn't carry Guild...

But he has a bunch of Bourgeois, Collings...and one Huss and Dalton :D :D
I think you need to call me when you take a visit over there, Bill! :D I've never been, but I've heard great things.

Chaz, you'd really like Rudy's in SoHo. I've been there twice and each time I was completely overwhelmed. Mebbe we should meet up one of these days?. I'll buy you lunch. :wink:
 

chazmo

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twocorgis said:
Chazmo said:
Bill Ashton said:
ME doesn't carry Guild...

But he has a bunch of Bourgeois, Collings...and one Huss and Dalton :D :D
I think you need to call me when you take a visit over there, Bill! :D I've never been, but I've heard great things.

Chaz, you'd really like Rudy's in SoHo. I've been there twice and each time I was completely overwhelmed. Mebbe we should meet up one of these days?. I'll buy you lunch. :wink:
Sandy, I'd love to do that sometime. We'll have to plan that down the road!
 

Brad Little

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Bill Ashton said:
If I can work out the trip, I will PM you.

Thanks for finding that pair!
Sounds good.
On another front, a friend of mine has a small but growing guitar business, and I told him that the LTG tour hosts expressed interest in expanding their Mom & Pop outlets, so he emailed to Dave Gonzalez but never received an answer. Anybody know who the New England rep is?
Brad
 

Bill Ashton

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Brad, I may be able to find that out later this week. Local store in my city (not Union) is also a Guild dealer. Its where I bought my GAD, which is all he has carried in the past...
 

twocorgis

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Brad Little said:
twocorgis said:
[Chaz, you'd really like Rudy's in SoHo. I've been there twice and each time I was completely overwhelmed. Mebbe we should meet up one of these days?. I'll buy you lunch. :wink:

Sandy, I'd love to do that sometime. We'll have to plan that down the road!

I'm game Brad. It would be good if a bunch of us could meet up. More the merrier. 8)
 
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