Whats the real purpose of The climate meeting in Copenhagen

Scratch

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My profession is research; I understand much better than you think. I also understand I'll not convince you of false science, nor will you convince me. As I teach my students; you really don't need to think like me, nor I like you, but commit to seeking truth. Study that you believe... Believe what you will...
 

teleharmonium

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FNG said:
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change (IPCC) (2001) dismisses the view
that solar activity has a meaningful influence
on global climate.


http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs ... er2707.pdf

Solar activity doesn't have an affect on climate? Well....bust my buttons.

Ah, but look at what the IPCC actually said, and you'll see that the above characterization (pasted from a right wing website) is not accurate.

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/020.htm

"C.5 Observed and Modelled Changes in Solar and Volcanic Activity Radiative forcing of the climate system due to solar irradiance change is estimated to be 0.3 ± 0.2 Wm-2 for the period 1750 to the present (Figure (eight)), and most of the change is estimated to have occurred during the first half of the 20th century. The fundamental source of all energy in the Earth?s climate system is radiation from the Sun. Therefore, variation in solar output is a radiative forcing agent. The absolute value of the spectrally integrated total solar irradiance (TSI) incident on the Earth is not known to better than about 4 Wm-2, but satellite observations since the late 1970s show relative variations over the past two solar 11-year activity cycles of about 0.1%, which is equivalent to a variation in radiative forcing of about 0.2 Wm-2. Prior to these satellite observations, reliable direct measurements of solar irradiance are not available. Variations over longer periods may have been larger, but the techniques used to reconstruct historical values of TSI from proxy observations (e.g., sunspots) have not been adequately verified. Solar variation varies more substantially in the ultraviolet region, and studies with climate models suggest that inclusion of spectrally resolved solar irradiance variations and solar-induced stratospheric ozone changes may improve the realism of model simulations of the impact of solar variability on climate. Other mechanisms for the amplification of solar effects on climate have been proposed, but do not have a rigorous theoretical or observational basis."

As you can see, their report acknowledges the obvious fact that the energy in the climate system comes from the sun; that's hardly a lack of "meaningful influence", if words still have meaning.

However, the sun constantly radiates and has done so for a long time... solar radiation itself is essentially a very large constant with pretty small fluctuation within a range that it operates in. The only way solar radiation could explain climate change today is if there was a corresponding swing in solar radiation. If you're suggesting that is the reason, where is the evidence for that ? That is a positive argument you are making about something you are saying is a possible alternative explanation, so the burden of proof is on you.
 

AlohaJoe

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Scratch said:
Pied-piper-31.jpg
Looks a bit like Rupert Murdoch.
 

FNG

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teleharmonium said:
FNG said:
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change (IPCC) (2001) dismisses the view
that solar activity has a meaningful influence
on global climate.


http://nzclimatescience.net/images/PDFs ... er2707.pdf

Solar activity doesn't have an affect on climate? Well....bust my buttons.

Ah, but look at what the IPCC actually said, and you'll see that the above characterization (pasted from a right wing website) is not accurate.

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/020.htm

"C.5 Observed and Modelled Changes in Solar and Volcanic Activity Radiative forcing of the climate system due to solar irradiance change is estimated to be 0.3 ± 0.2 Wm-2 for the period 1750 to the present (Figure (eight)), and most of the change is estimated to have occurred during the first half of the 20th century. The fundamental source of all energy in the Earth?s climate system is radiation from the Sun. Therefore, variation in solar output is a radiative forcing agent. The absolute value of the spectrally integrated total solar irradiance (TSI) incident on the Earth is not known to better than about 4 Wm-2, but satellite observations since the late 1970s show relative variations over the past two solar 11-year activity cycles of about 0.1%, which is equivalent to a variation in radiative forcing of about 0.2 Wm-2. Prior to these satellite observations, reliable direct measurements of solar irradiance are not available. Variations over longer periods may have been larger, but the techniques used to reconstruct historical values of TSI from proxy observations (e.g., sunspots) have not been adequately verified. Solar variation varies more substantially in the ultraviolet region, and studies with climate models suggest that inclusion of spectrally resolved solar irradiance variations and solar-induced stratospheric ozone changes may improve the realism of model simulations of the impact of solar variability on climate. Other mechanisms for the amplification of solar effects on climate have been proposed, but do not have a rigorous theoretical or observational basis."

As you can see, their report acknowledges the obvious fact that the energy in the climate system comes from the sun; that's hardly a lack of "meaningful influence", if words still have meaning.

However, the sun constantly radiates and has done so for a long time... solar radiation itself is essentially a very large constant with pretty small fluctuation within a range that it operates in. The only way solar radiation could explain climate change today is if there was a corresponding swing in solar radiation. If you're suggesting that is the reason, where is the evidence for that ? That is a positive argument you are making about something you are saying is a possible alternative explanation, so the burden of proof is on you.

The Journal Of the South African Institution of Civil Engineering is a "right wing " website? That cut and paste is from page 42 of the paper, not some website.

Seems that solar energy would have a profound affect on global climate.

Yet the article you posted said...Other mechanisms for the amplification of solar effects on climate have been proposed, but do not have a rigorous theoretical or observational basis

Like I said...I'm just a dumb country boy, but it would seem that they do some serious theoretical head scratching and obtain some observational basis.
 

West R Lee

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Well I was going to pass on this one, but Mr. Kidder has taken the liberty of bringing my alias into the fray, so here we go.

Cappy, as with all this type of discussion here on LTG, in the "Iceburg" thread, I offered hordes of information to the contrary of the so called "Climate Change" point of view. Every single morsel of it from what I would consider liberal media. Not one quote, story or clip from FOX, The Weekly Standard etc., all of it from The New York Times, CNN and Time magazine magazine (owned by CNN). All of it dismissed.....and deleted I might add.

As with all of these discussions, it seems anytime I get involved, the thread gets deleted, though I have never disparaged or gotten angry with any individual on this board. I've always taken that as having made points that are difficult to defend against and have assumed there might be a moderator here that took issue. I can't presume anything else. I can post more.....much more :wink: .

Sure is cold down here. Record snow south of here last week. :) I still contend that if it weren't for "Global Warming", we'd still be in the ice age...........and that's a fact :lol: . So y'all go ahead with your Copenhagen thread, I'll sit this one out....... :wink: except to answer Steffan by saying, Steffan, there is no other way to bring the U.S. (or the rest of the world) under the rule of the U.N.......just think about it and do your own research. The U.N. will legislate and they will enforce........and not a single one of them elected to office by you, me or any American.....or Canadian for that matter. Think about it. That alone should give ANYONE with a belief in democracy something to consider......it's a very bad idea!

West
 

Qvart

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JerryR said:
Qvart said:
A study of how global warming will lead to more scantily-clad Danish women?

ychwofgimqke.jpg


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't call that scanty :(

If you track down the commercial that still was taken from you will see they go far beyond "scanty." I would have linked it, but I have a feeling posts with "NSFW" tags wouldn't go over too well with the moderators around here, so lets get back to politics and climate change! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

West R Lee

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john_kidder said:
Qvart said:
taabru45 said:
Whats the real purpose of The climate meeting in Copenhagen
A study of how global warming will lead to more scantily-clad Danish women?
My (Norwegian) daughter is there now, so the conference has served to attract at least one beautiful woman.

The purpose of the conference is obvious: leaders have a positive duty to act in the face of humanity's first common and world-wide crisis. They are gathered in Copenhagen in search of a strategy to mitigate as much as possible the continuing warming of the globe and to prepare for the hardship that is certain now to befall millions of people no matter what is done at this late stage.

The conspiracy theories and blame for various "others" so casually tossed around by an ever-diminishing band of noisy naysayers are neither interesting nor amusing. The self-interested parties engaged in the campaign against climate science are like the late unlamented tobacco lobbyists - their voice too will shrink to the vanishing point just as that of the tobacco "doctors" has. And the quicker the better. Lead, follow, or get out of the bloody way.

And to see all this as a plot directed against the United States, or against "capitalism", is astonishing, amazing narcissism. There are 6.8 billion people on the planet; 300 million of whom live in the USA. And the "free market" of all-knowing sovereign consumers acting in their own interest has always been a myth, never a reality. Sorry, West, but it's absurd to imagine so much energy directed against so few.

If we had personal advisors, doctors for example, who expressed such a strong common diagnosis as the world's climate scientists, most of us would listen to them. The others, I guess, are perfectly free to take their individual bodies to the faith healers.

But there's much more than simple personal risk here - this is (yes, it actually is) a risk for all of humanity and many other species as well. So of course religion enters at times like this: there are profound moral and ethical principles at stake. I'd like to think that I could walk as Christ or the Buddha might have advised had they been here now - compassion first, concern always for the poorest and least powerful, and fellow-feeling with all other sentient beings.

So I'm not going to "debate" this here any more. I'll use my tiny energy to write to politicians and to talk with young people about the sort of planet they expect to inherit. And I will agitate along with the rest of the conspirators for countries and industries to act as quickly as possible, with as much energy as possible, to reduce the emission of greenhouse gases. It's the least and the most I can do.


Signing off now,
John[/quote

And John, it is absurd unless "the few" have much wealth and you need to conjure up a way to seperate them from that wealth. "Global Warming" is as good as any I guess.

The idea of "World Government" has been kicked around for centuries. The League of Nations gave the powers that were then a vehicle and it didn't pan out. Then, the United Nations. Now my friends, the world in on the brink, and the only obstacle left is the United States. Danged Americans, but they are working feverishly on demolishing the United States....get ready, here it comes, and much faster than I thought it would.

West
 

dklsplace

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Enough already.......

You wanna debate lacquer vs poly, PB's vs 80/20, Westerly vs Corona/GAD, CN Tower girl vs anything else, this is the place.

You wanna debate science & politics & think you can 'win' someone over on a text only forum.....start your own.

The Management
 

dreadnut

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Alright, what's more environmentally sound, laquer or poly? :lol: just kidding, just kidding :lol:
 

JerryR

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Qvart said:
JerryR said:
Qvart said:
A study of how global warming will lead to more scantily-clad Danish women?

ychwofgimqke.jpg


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't call that scanty :(

If you track down the commercial that still was taken from you will see they go far beyond "scanty." I would have linked it, but I have a feeling posts with "NSFW" tags wouldn't go over too well with the moderators around here, so lets get back to politics and climate change! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can always PM the link :twisted:

Please....... :D
 

Qvart

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JerryR said:
You can always PM the link :twisted:

Please....... :D

Haha...maybe I will. And then maybe you can tell me what it's a commercial for. Although I'm not really sure that matters! ;)
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Is there some place on the net, perhaps accessible through LTG, where politics and religion can be discussed? That way visitors to the site won't stumble upon a current debate, but old friends on here can talk about such things--if they are willing to go off-site. The Steel Guitar Forum has an offshoot like that.

hf
 

dklsplace

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Is there some place on the net, perhaps accessible through LTG, where politics and religion can be discussed? That way visitors to the site won't stumble upon a current debate, but old friends on here can talk about such things--if they are willing to go off-site. The Steel Guitar Forum has an offshoot like that.


Here's the short of it. This site exists as a site for musicians of any level with an affection for the Guild brand. I know for a fact, that more than one relationship formed here that were highly regarded by the individuals with mutual respect & admiration, have been broken/strained, & some essentially abandoned over opposing views & disagreements which came about through political discussions.

Makes no difference how civil the discussions are. The fact of the matter is, that our views of the people around us change as we learn more about them. Much of the time those changes aren't for the better & in a text only venue, attitudes ultimately show themselves throughout the forum which have no benefit to the membership as a whole.

I won't facilitate a side forum that will damage the community & drive folks away in anger or hurt, that has nothing to do with the reason we all came to be here.
 
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