The Oxnard Guild’s have a bolt on neck joint?

[davismanLV]

No..... I liked your post and heard your message loud and clear. And I agree.....

 

[adorshki]

The question is whether or not a dovetail joint held together with hide glue became the tradition because it is the ideal solution or because it was the only solution in the early days of lutherie.

But it lasted because hide glue has the least creep resistance of any glue, meaning it doesn't stretch under tension like the aliphatic resins (Titebond). It crystallizes as it dries, so it's the most durable glue bond available for wood. Which has its cost in the labor of re-setting the neck. But for the rest of the instrument where every element is under stress, it is the ideal solution..

 

[mavuser]

Not what I meant, not what I said (maybe I wasn't clear enough)...
This is interesting ! Does it mean it took a much fatter neck to compensate for the loss ? (☺)
I find it strange though ; hard for me to believe that a Hoboken made Guild could sound exactly the same as a 2016 Oxnard made same model...But I trust your word.
Bernie

thanks i've owned three Hoboken M-20s (yes all at the same time...still own one) and played at least 4 or 5 Oxnard M-20's. just my opinion from my own personal experience

also however i do not really consider these true "bolt on" necks like a Fender tele which u can easily remove and swap on a different neck, etc, no glue is involved at all. The Guilds and similar design use the bolts internally but really it is more an "alternative design set neck," you are not just going to leisurely pop the neck off like on a Fender

 

[jwsamuel]

Bolted necks require a thicker heel for obvious sturdiness reason since a couple of holding bolts will be the only link between the neck and the guitar body, making it (as far as I'm concerned and from experience with both) less comfortable when your left hand - or right one for lefties - meets that junction around the 12th fret.

Bolted necks do not require a thicker heel. Take a look at the Martin SC-13E.

As for the feel of necks with different heel sizes, that is personal preference.

 

[Bill Ashton]

Pascal! So good to hear from you!

Don't know whether it has been brought up, but Collings also uses a bolt-on neck application.

Briefly back to my H & D's, if I were to sit on the side of the bed and play right now, my DS (drop shoulder) would "sound" better over all than my Pilgrim (hide-glue dread). Both bolt on necks, both solid Adirondack tops. Dismissing the scale differences and body shapes, one may be better simply because it is "played in" more.

So, might propose the theory, everyone thinks a dovetail joint "sounds better" when actually it was the only system used on old instruments which are played in and "sound better." The newer bolt-on systems may be more efficient for manufacture and service, and perhaps even more accurate in fitting and attachment to the guitar body...but they are all essentially "brand new." No real years on them yet. In future we may find that they sound as-good or better than a present-day glued joint, but have the advantage of easier service if needed.

Boggles the mind...can you imagine a day when a bolt-on neck is the prefered standard?

 

[Bernie]

thanks i've owned three Hoboken M-20s (yes all at the same time...still own one) and played at least 4 or 5 Oxnard M-20's. just my opinion from my own personal experience

also however i do not really consider these true "bolt on" necks like a Fender tele which u can easily remove and swap on a different neck, etc, no glue is involved at all. The Guilds and similar design use the bolts internally but really it is more an "alternative design set neck," you are not just going to leisurely pop the neck off like on a Fender

Thanks Mavuser. You have a valuable experience of Hoboken M-20s and your having played four or five new ones (from Oxnard) makes your word very interesting...So I will remember that

It'd be interesting to get a Tele or a Strat with a glued neck too ! , see how it changes the tone; if its gonna be better or not quite as good...
But you're right, these 'bolt-on necks' on modern acoustics are very different...I don't know of Guild's ones, but when it comes to Taylor's, it'd be hard to tell without knowing (or at least without being prepared) that they have bolt-on necks...The difference is not huge, or large...

 

[stormin1155]

I did a neck reset on a G-212 about a year ago and was surprised to find a glued mortise/tenon joint... no bolts. This was a Westerly RI built guitar circa late '70s early '80s. I wish I would have taken pictures.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

I did a neck reset on a G-212 about a year ago and was surprised to find a glued mortise/tenon joint... no bolts. This was a Westerly RI built guitar circa late '70s early '80s. I wish I would have taken pictures.

Surprised you were surprised as this was the norm for a long time!

 

[bluesypicky]

Hey Bill! Hey Sandy! Good to hear from youse guys too!

 

[mario1956]

Nah. My Mossman built in 1976 has a glued in bolt on neck. Its had one neck reset. And for the sound I'd put it up against anything.
And as far as vibrations in the neck I can feel them easily.