The finish is pulling away from the top under the bridge of my Westerly D-1212.

[resetpreacher]

I figure I need to cut through the finish next to the bridge and attempt to glue down the finish before pulling the bridge off so more finish does not pull up in the process of repair. I'm a watchmaker, so have the skills and tools to do a decent job of this. I figure a modified Exacto knife or one of my very small triangular files will do the job, depending on how hard the finish is. After cutting through the finish, I debate what glue to go with. I've considered superglue, as it would run well under the finish. But would superglue make the job more difficult of removing the finish to glue the bridge directly to the mahogany top, assuming that's necessary? Of course, I wish Guild had taken the trouble to glue directly to the top in the first place. Will Titebond hide glue flow under the finish even if warmed up? Or would Titebond I or II be better?Btw, the damage occurred after a gig. My wife and I decided to walk around in some beautiful snow, then had dinner in a very warm McDonalds. I discovered the damage after getting the guitar home and assume the sudden change in extreme temperatures caused it.

 

[wileypickett]

I'd slacken the strings and see if the lacquer can be pushed back into place. Not as a perment fix, but to see if the lifting lacquer was caused by bridge lift.

Not sure how best to fix the problem after that, but you'll at least know whether the bridge needs to be reglued in addition to repairing the lacquer.

 

[davismanLV]

Are the Asian built Guilds finished with nitrocellulose lacquer or do they use a poly finish??

 

[resetpreacher]

I'd slacken the strings and see if the lacquer can be pushed back into place. Not as a perment fix, but to see if the lifting lacquer was caused by bridge lift.

Not sure how best to fix the problem after that, but you'll at least know whether the bridge needs to be reglued in addition to repairing the lacquer.

Wiley, it is almost certainly caused by the pull on the bridge of 12 strings. The first thing I did after discovering the damage was tune down a full step and use a capo for less tension. Nonetheless, the damage has grown. I'm wishing I had at least cut through the finish very soon to avoid further pulling up the finish. If someone more experienced with using superglue on guitars says it's Ok, I may try the quick fix on both sides of the channel I cut in the finish.

 

[resetpreacher]

Are the Asian built Guilds finished with nitrocellulose lacquer or do they use a poly finish??

Tom, someone else will need to answer that question. The finish is obviously a lot different from my other Guild, a JF30-12E Bld from the 60's. It's shinier and a lot thicker.

 

[beecee]

Poly.

Guild D-1212 12-string Acoustic Guitar - Natural

12-string Acoustic Guitar with Mahogany Top, Mahogany Back and Sides, Mahogany Neck, and Rosewood Fingerboard - Natural

www.sweetwater.com

 

[SFIV1967]

Are the Asian built Guilds finished with nitrocellulose lacquer or do they use a poly finish??

All the Asian built Guild models are finished in Polyurethane. There is no Asian built Guild using Nitro.
Ralf

 

[resetpreacher]

Thanks for identifying it, Ralf. It may help in the need for understanding how to glue it.

 

[geoguy]

I assume that the rear of the bridge is lifting, and that the finish isn't peeling up all by itself?

If so, the correct repair (in my opinion) would be to remove the bridge & re-glue it.

Wicking superglue under there now will only make it more difficult for someone else to remove/re-glue the bridge sometime in the future. I think a protein glue (hide glue, etc.) is often used for this application, specifically because re-installation of a bridge is something that will be needed at some point in the lifespan of most acoustic guitars.

 

[resetpreacher]

It seems best to only lightly score around the bridge to locate it before removal.

 

[adorshki]

It seems best to only lightly score around the bridge to locate it before removal.

I agree. Poly's supposed to be very difficult to work with, in terms of potential repair, so I suspect you'll wind up deciding to "glue it back down" and not worry about future touch up. It's real tough stuff, so I doubt anybody's gonna contemplate removing it in the future.

Given that scenario, I'd only worry about what glue'll wick under there most cleanly and I think you're right, a superglue.

Let's hope they didn't glue the bridge to the finish but to bare wood, because that'll be easier to clean up on the bridge.

Here's what I think is going on: When Guild glued bridges to tops in the US, they left a blank area for the bridge, a little smaller than the bridge outline, so the result was a very clean seam. But the hideglue's bond to the finish under the bridge is stronger than the finish's bond to the top wood, so when a bridge starts lifting it pulls up finish with it.

NCL just breaks off. But apparently the poly finish won't break, it just starts peeling.

I also doubt very much if any hide glue is used on the MIC instruments, it requires too much "special handling" for their production methods.

 

[resetpreacher]

Adorshki, you are confirming my thoughts, thank you. It's clear the finish is pulling up and the bridge is not releasing from it. They obviously glued the bridge to at least some finish, maybe a fair amount. We'll see if they actually glued to wood as well when we get the bridge off.

 

[davismanLV]

Did you buy this guitar new?? Because if you did, this could probably be fixed, or more likely the guitar replaced under warranty. I don't think that's been brought up before. If you bought it new, it's a warranty issue. If not then, have at it or just leave it alone. It's not a GLARING AWFUL thing, and trying to repair it could make it worse. If the bridge is not moving or pulling up, you could just leave it and play the hell out of it. As has been stated, repairing poly finishes is problematic.

 

[resetpreacher]

I suspect I could manage removing the poly to the line I'll score around the bridge using files. I've done a lot of controlled filing making watch parts. One luthier says he uses a chemical stripper on poly to close to the line. A friend here has CitruStrip, he says works well and is a lot gentler than a regular stripper. Will write Guild though shipping a guitar is not going to be cheap.

 

[JRB2U]

Guilds have lifetime warranties but you need to provide a sales receipt from where you purchased it new. I have the same guitar D-1212
I bought new in 2016 that's doing the same thing...Mine isn't quit as bad as far as pulling up the poly but it does have some flecking... bridge pulling up is somewhat common place w 12strings they say...I've an Alverez AD60 about 25 years old that's perfect & it's always been in standard tuning... I have an email & voice message into Guild about it & what I should do. On their website it says it would be covered under their warranty but lots of if's, ands, & but's... I'd be carful about trying to just squirt glue under there, the right way is to completely remove it & redo it, the way it should of been at the factory.

 

[adorshki]

Guilds have lifetime warranties but you need to provide a sales receipt from where you purchased it new.

Also must have been bought from an authorized dealer.

I suspect I could manage removing the poly to the line I'll score around the bridge using files. I've done a lot of controlled filing making watch parts. One luthier says he uses a chemical stripper on poly to close to the line. A friend here has CitruStrip, he says works well and is a lot gentler than a regular stripper. Will write Guild though shipping a guitar is not going to be cheap.

Yes I see you're in S. Korea. In past under Fender, the MIC guitars were routinely replaced with a new one as the warranty also still mentions: "repaired or replaced (at Guild’s discretion) without charge."..the reason being it was simply cheaper to replace 'em than to repair 'em.
Complicated by the fact Fender didn't even stock parts or have factory repair capability for 'em, and poly finish was one of the "bug-a-boos".

Given the shipping complications on top of all that, I suspect Guild would simply ask you to return it to a dealer who would provide the new instrument.

Not the most ideal solution if you've bonded with the guitar. But it's possible they actually have authorized repair available in S. Korea under CMG.

I'd be curious to hear what they say. Warranty's one of my "pet topics". Good luck either way!

 

[JRB2U]

Also must have been bought from an authorized dealer.




Yes I see you're in S. Korea. In past under Fender, the MIC guitars were routinely replaced with a new one as the warranty also still mentions: "repaired or replaced (at Guild’s discretion) without charge."..the reason being it was simply cheaper to replace 'em than to repair 'em.
Complicated by the fact Fender didn't even stock parts or have factory repair capability for 'em, and poly finish was one of the "bug-a-boos".

Given the shipping complications on top of all that, I suspect Guild would simply ask you to return it to a dealer who would provide the new instrument.

Not the most ideal solution if you've bonded with the guitar. But it's possible they actually have authorized repair available in S. Korea under CMG.

I'd be curious to hear what they say. Warranty's one of my "pet topics". Good luck either way!

I’ve been on the phone today along with emails with a gentleman from Cordoba & he seems very interested in coming to a solution as with what to do but says he needs to talk with the supplier, which I thought odd, not really understanding what that meant but I’m okay as long as it’s a positive outcome. And your correct it must be an authorized dealer.

 

[resetpreacher]

I contacted Guild and they said the guitar was out of warranty. Evidently, there is a different warranty for Chinese-made models compared the American. Btw, the guitar has no serial number inside. So, I'm back to repairing it myself. I'm in need of it next week. After that, I'll:
1. Remove strings and score a line around the bridge.
2. Remove the bridge using a piece of metal heated in the oven to 250 degrees, Fahrenheit.
2. Remove the finish up to the scored line.
3. Do my best to wick superglue under the finish and clamp.
4. Glue the bridge back.

 

[JRB2U]

I contacted Guild and they said the guitar was out of warranty. Evidently, there is a different warranty for Chinese-made models compared the American. Btw, the guitar has no serial number inside. So, I'm back to repairing it myself. I'm in need of it next week. After that, I'll:
1. Remove strings and score a line around the bridge.
2. Remove the bridge using a piece of metal heated in the oven to 250 degrees, Fahrenheit.
2. Remove the finish up to the scored line.
3. Do my best to wick superglue under the finish and clamp.
4. Glue the bridge back.

Good luck...get some deep throated clamps ahead of time.

 

[adorshki]

I’ve been on the phone today along with emails with a gentleman from Cordoba & he seems very interested in coming to a solution as with what to do but says he needs to talk with the supplier, which I thought odd, not really understanding what that meant but I’m okay as long as it’s a positive outcome. And your correct it must be an authorized dealer.

The MIC Guilds are actually manufactured at a plant called Grand Reward Education & Entertainment. That factory built the GAD line under contract for Fender, according to Fender-supplied blueprints. Fender even sourced and supplied the wood themselves, ostensibly to ensure their material quality standards were maintained.

I now suspect it also simplifies CITES paperwork as the materials had to be CITES-compliant certified when brought into country (China), making the export vetting a pre-established fact.

Anyway, Cordoba also used them for their line of flattops. I've wondered if that "coincidence" was one factor that encouraged Cordoba to acquire Guild when it went on the block. GREE also builds the "Westerly Collection" guitars now.

So suspect it's a need to check "across divisions" to see how GREE wants to handle the claim, as in "who's gonna foot the bill?".
I understand that for practical purposes you'll probably just go ahead and proceed yourself, but why was it out of warranty?

I've also been curious as to whether Cordoba actually has or plans to implement domestic repair of those guitars now, as we've seen evidence they do stock parts for 'em like bridges.

We've also seen that the guitars come to Oxnard to undergo a domestic QC check now, something Fender didn't do.

So that may not help you in S. Korea, but your feedback would help understand how CMG is doing things.

BTW we've seen evidence of 'em "stepping up" in prior situations, but those were domestic-built guitars. And to be fair, we've also seen knowledgable members here say warranty was denied on guitars that those members believed should have qualified.