Starfire IV vs. Gibson ES 335

[F312]

Something about my BB King (red) that I like. It's a sit-down guitar with a rewarding sound.

 

[Guildedagain]

Gibson 335's are a mixed bag, ranging from priceless vintage Dot models, to decades of reissues, some better than others. A stop tailpiece Dot would be the holy grail for me. The formula is stop tailpiece, PAF's, 17º headstock pitch. Basically the same formula as the Les Paul, early models of which were described as a "Tele on seroids" and with a 335, you add acoustic presence, some acoustic presence, varies by model.

 

[jiagap]

I wanted a 335 my whole life. I finally got a Larry Carlton signature model in my 60's. I could never really bond with it, it was a bit finicky. I ran into a 2004 Corona Guild Starfire IV on consignment at a local guitar shop. I made an offer and got it. Built solid and not finicky at all. I sold the Gibson and still happy with the Starfire.

 

[Giatorre]

I have this weird thing about dot fret markers. I dislike them. Got to be some kind of block, capital or parallel inlays and the 50's styles Gibbies I have looked at all had dots. I wrote to Gibson recently about some neck specs and my answer was SILENCE. Interesting marketing approach. I have sent questions in the past and NEVER receive an answer however Guild...they answer every single time and pretty durn quick too.

Here are pics of what is left of my 335 style guitars...

Really cheap Grote Jazz 335 (Replaced all of the hardware including pups)

Ibanez AS73 - All stock except addition of Towner Bar and Bigsby. I purchased it new with the intention of replacing the pickups but I like them a lot.

Newark Street Guild Starfire VI - Bone stock

Wowww! Im in the market for a 335 style too an i fear the thin necks (i own an Epi Casino Elitist w/D shaped slim neck and i'm tired of it). Isbthe AS73 neck a little on the chunky side? Thanks

 

[Andreas]

I so far kept the 1966 ES and the 1980 SF, I am debating if I really need the SF. But selling an SF is tough, the brand doesn’t get the recognition it deserves.

I ended up selling the SF, so far I haven't looked back, I prefer the (old) ES much over the (newer) SF. If it was a SF with the old, thin PUs things might have ended differently. But to me, it just sounded too thick, the ES is much more airy sounding. Selling a SF it tough, there is not much recognition, at least in Germany / Europe. I had it listed for more than 6 months and I sold it below my cost for acquisition, refret, addition of a pickguard and minor repairs.

 

[bobouz]

Wowww! Im in the market for a 335 style too an i fear the thin necks (i own an Epi Casino Elitist w/D shaped slim neck and i'm tired of it). Isbthe AS73 neck a little on the chunky side? Thanks

Gibson necks can vary considerably. Yes, the Elitist Casino neck is pretty narrow (I have one, too), but I also have four ES Gibsons made between 2009 & 2012. Only one has a similarly slim neck. The others are noticeably wider. I also have a 2000 John Lee Hooker Sheraton (body made by Terada like the Elitist, then shipped to Nashville for installation of Gibson pickups & hardware). The Sheraton also has a wider neck. My only Starfire (1997) has a narrow profile, very similar to the Elitist Casino.

So as far as ES Gibsons go, you've truly got to try them out. Best of luck in your search!

 

[krysh]

My Guild virus started in 2007 with a 1990 SF iV (maple/ebony neck, maple body) that was great for me, because it was a little different than the usual 335s I knew. Later I traded her for a great amp, because the neck was a tad to thin for my taste. I had a GST T-400 that I compared intensively with an exceptional 1968 Es-335 with 50's P.A.F. that belongs to a friend of mine - the 335 won. later I got a 1998 SF IV (hog/rosewood neck/maple body) with duncan pups again (and I love it) and compared it to the same ES. this time they were close enough for me. Then I found my '71 M-75C that outplays the SF just a bit.

So what I experienced is that you can find SF 4's that are very close to ES-335s esp. if they have the Seymour Duncan Pups, but also can sound very different with other pups The USA made HB-1's are even a bit better for my taste but the SD's are very close to them, too.
also the mahogany or maple neck SFs sound a bit different. to my ears maple necks sound a bit more airy and hog a bit warmer.

You have to judge by your own ears, but qualitywise the Guilds are far more consistent than Gibsons.

 

[Mark WW]

Wowww! Im in the market for a 335 style too an i fear the thin necks (i own an Epi Casino Elitist w/D shaped slim neck and i'm tired of it). Isbthe AS73 neck a little on the chunky side? Thanks

Sorry - I haven't been here in a while. The specs for the Artcore necks do not make them large but the carve is much more comfortable to be than the slim taper "D" on Epi's 335's.

Ibanez Neck Specs:​

​

NECK DIMENSIONS​

• • Scale : 628mm
  • a : Width 43mm at NUT
  • b : Width 57mm at 22F
  • c : Thickness 21mm at 1F
  • d : Thickness 24mm at 9F
  • Radius : 305mmR
• 
  
  DESCRIPTION

 

[jte]

I managed a guitar store fron 1977- 1988. We were an authorized dealer for Gibson, Fender, Guild, Yamaha, Ovation, Takamine, Washburn, etc. We did a lot of maintenance and repair work and were part of the Ax-In-Hand chain in Illinois. Larry, the owner of Ax-In-Hand in DeKalb, IL was one of the first well known and knowledgable collector stores. For example, for years he had a wall of SGs- one example of every model for every year from 1960 or whenever they started that shape through 1969. So, an SG Jr, Special, Deluxe, Custom for every year. And that wall was only the part of the SG collection. He had similar collections of all sorts of acoustic arch-tops, flat-tops, arch-top electrics, semi-hollow electrics, etc. So I got the opportunity to have my hands on a LOT of Gibson ES-33X guitars. And I was a huge fan of an ES-335 because of a photo of Clapton in the Blind Faith days sitting on a blond Fendery piggyback amp playing his 335. Plus Alvin Lee, B. B. King, Freddie King, Elvin Bishop, then later Larry Carlton and Lee Ritenour.

So my take is this- The SF-IV is much more consistenlty well made. Some Gibsons are indeed special guitars but too many are at best mediocre. Every SF-IV and the two SF-V I've played are on par with the best 335s and exceed the two 345's and 355's I've played. I read a Larry Carlton interview decades ago (when he still had long hair...) where he talked of the differences between Gibson and Yamaha. This would have been around the time they had the SA-2000 out. He said if you took 10 new Gibsons and 10 new Yamahas, all 10 of the Yamahas would be excellent guitars. But while 7 or 8 of the Gibsons would be only mediocre or worse, and 1 or 2 would be very good, there was the likelyhood that one Gibson would be exquisite and special. I'm not sure the same comaprison will hold up with Guild, but I've never played a SF-IV that made me say "Eh, not good". So there's the consistency of each instrument which is really helpful if you can't get your hands on one to play it before you buy it. I wouldn't take my chances on a Gibson without having it in my hands first, but would on a Starfire.

 

[garyfanclub]

Never played an old Starfire, would love to one day, but my M75 scratches the hollow Guild itch for me. Never say never though... at the right price I may take the plunge.

My favorite 335-style guitar is the Epiphone Riviera. I've got a 2001 MIK version that's just downright excellent. Something about the mini-humbuckers and the trapeze tailpiece that gives it a shimmer and slinky feel that other 335's I've played don't have. Sure, maybe not as "focused" as the stop-tail versions, but I love some "air" in the sound of my hollow and semi-hollow guitars. A downright *excellent* rhythm guitar. That said, the size of the body makes it a bit ungainly, so I rarely use it live (unless I'll be sitting down).