Starfire IV vs. Gibson ES 335

[theonemanband]

Both great guitars.
Having owned and played 12 string versions of both (currently my SF1V-12 is my gigging instrument), I would agree that the main difference is Guilds are by far, more value for money or, as you folks in the states say, "bang for the buck"!

 

[wdboland]

I don't have an ES335, but I do own a '79 ES347. I also own a '96 SF IV, which in a pervious post I stated has become my go to. I find the Guild to be a very comfortable guitar to play. The Gibson not so much. It is very heavy compared to the Guild, also the the neck on the Gibson seems to be very long. Although, the way I have the Gibson set up (read pickups) it is my favorite guitar to play slide on.

-Wayne

 

[SBrem]

I have an early 60's 330, plays wonderfully, and a 2011 335, plays and sounds wonderful. I've played a few Starfire IV's a long time ago, they were great too. I think one has to play the individual instruments; for instance with my Strat, I had 10 to play and choose from, and mine instantly stood out.

Steve

 

[wonkenstein]

If you had the choice back in the late 60s to early 70s... The Starfire IV and V ran neck to neck with the 335 price wise and the Starfire V actually cost more new than a 335 in the 60s. Many players favored the slim neck of the 335 over the chunky Les Paul necks.... And then of course in the 60s nobody could come close to to how slim those Guild necks were. The biggest difference between the semi hollow Starfires and the 335 was the pickups. The Gibson PAF and later mid 60s Patent models were hotter, usually anywhere from 7.2k to 8k. Starfires with the Hoboken issue buckers were more jangly and mid range focused. The original buckers on my '67 Starfire V were 6.4k and 6.5k. Given the choice today? That's a tricky one. I've always liked the 335 and preferred the more airy and open sound over a Les Paul. But consistency wise the Starfire to me has been built just as good, if not better for more years.

 

[wonkenstein]

These days a 60s Starfire IV or V is a huge bang for the buck compared to a 335 of the same vintage. And having played a couple of the latest Starfire guitars .... Still a huge bang for the buck in terms of build and playing. Boils down to the sound you want because the pickups are so different. Body wise, not so much. Starfire IV and a 335 both have laminate bodies and the late models use a tunomatic and a stop tail plus they're wired the same way. It's going to come down to the pickups.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

One thing about PAFs & early Patent # pickups & output: the numbers are misleading 'cuz the pickups use magnets charged up weaker than most modern pickup magnets. The bridge p'up (a PAF) in my Barney Kessel reads 8.44KOhms but it doesn't put out much more signal than the 5K bridge anti-hum in my Bluesbird. The PAF is more mid-focused, though, which into an overdriving amp can give the impression of higher output. But play 'em both clean…

Gibson started juicing up the magnets more right around the time the Patent #s started getting darker sounding. This isn't causal in & of itself but just one factor among many.

-Dave-

 

[wonkenstein]

Yes and with respect to Gibson PAFs there was a range of output values where the Guild designs were actually more consistent in the 60s.

 

[Greenstar]

I had a 1968 Starfire for quite some time. I was / am a huge Buddy Guy fan and I found that guitar hanging in a vintage guitar shop here in Atlanta in the mid 90s or so. I think I paid $800 for it and it was perfect. Amazing tone, action, frets; that guitar had mojo by the bucket loads. Sadly I traded it, and probably some cash, on a 70s hand wired Hiwatt 50 watt amp head because I was going after the David Gilmour tone at the time. Live and learn but I still look for that old 68 Starfire a few times a month on Reverb, it was that good.

I bought a Gibson 335 a few years ago and I have to say it's one incredible guitar. A lot different than my 68 Guild but amazing none the less. I feel like I can coax any type of tone out of my 335 and it sounds great through any of my amps. Of my 20 or so electric guitars my 335 by far gets the most play time. The Classic 57s are great pickups to my ear, I also have a set in my Derek Trucks SG, and they are very responsive to the volume and tone controls. The neck on mine is perfect for my hand, the fret work is superb, action low and buzz free. I think if you find a 335 that fits your personality you'll find it's a keeper.

 

[Guildadelphia]

You are probably correct. The weird thing is I had an AS93 with Super 58's and it was a nice guitar for sure but for some unknown reason I preferred the cheapo ceramic pickups in this AS73. Now I mostly play clean and had long wanted the 58's but in the end...

That just reinforces the old saying: "trust your ears".

 

[Mark WW]

That just reinforces the old saying: "trust your ears".

I have owned the older ceramics in other Artcores and the neck pups were muddy to my ears. But you are correct if it doesn't sound good to you then whatever brand or name doesn't matter.

 

[Mark WW]

I had a 1968 Starfire for quite some time. I was / am a huge Buddy Guy fan and I found that guitar hanging in a vintage guitar shop here in Atlanta in the mid 90s or so. I think I paid $800 for it and it was perfect. Amazing tone, action, frets; that guitar had mojo by the bucket loads. Sadly I traded it, and probably some cash, on a 70s hand wired Hiwatt 50 watt amp head because I was going after the David Gilmour tone at the time. Live and learn but I still look for that old 68 Starfire a few times a month on Reverb, it was that good.

I bought a Gibson 335 a few years ago and I have to say it's one incredible guitar. A lot different than my 68 Guild but amazing none the less. I feel like I can coax any type of tone out of my 335 and it sounds great through any of my amps. Of my 20 or so electric guitars my 335 by far gets the most play time. The Classic 57s are great pickups to my ear, I also have a set in my Derek Trucks SG, and they are very responsive to the volume and tone controls. The neck on mine is perfect for my hand, the fret work is superb, action low and buzz free. I think if you find a 335 that fits your personality you'll find it's a keeper.

Why did Gibson quit offering the 57's? I loved those but maybe they just have them in guitars I am not interested in?

 

[Greenstar]

Why did Gibson quit offering the 57's? I loved those but maybe they just have them in guitars I am not interested in?

I didn't realize they had stopped offering them. Phenomenal pickups. I've had a bunch of other HBs in various Gibsons and the 57s are my favorite bar none. I have a Les Paul Jr with P90s and they are really good as well.

My Les Paul Standard gets zero play with whatever HBs Gibson put in it. Sounds like it has a blanket over it compared to the 57s.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

I'm not a fan of the '57s—too mid-pushed for my taste—but a guitar that sounds dark no matter the pickups may be suffering from "pot impedance too low" syndrome. Check out the 525K (or so) pots offered as upgrades by various sellers. IMO they're well worth it.

-Dave-

 

[Cottage]

Owned both? Or even any Starfire vs any ES?
What was your experience with the guitars?

I enjoy Guilds for what they are, but to me....no comparison, the 335 is clearly superior. There is a reason it is an iconic guitar.

 

[matsickma]

I played a BB version of the 335 many years ago. Thought it was a pretty cool guitar. No "f-hole" model, black with "varitone" circuit which I liked. It also had a jack for both Mono and Stereo. I was in a music store checking it out. I like the way the Starfire looks more than the 335. The cutaways on the Guild look sleaker. I wouldn't mind at SF 4 or 5 without any "f-holes".

Overall I liked the 335 but the $price was a deal breaker at the time and likely is an issue today.

M

 

[GAD]

I enjoy Guilds for what they are, but to me....no comparison, the 335 is clearly superior. There is a reason it is an iconic guitar.

Yeah - because famous people played them. I've played piles of 335s and I've never been wowed except by a couple of vintage models with ludicrous price tags. I don't find them "clearly superior" at all, but then having options is a great thing.

 

[Nuuska]

Slight veer to microphones - why is it, that Shure SM57 or SM58 still are so good-selling while there are many in same price-rage wit better sound?

Simply - because at the time they were new there was not much competition and everybody who could afford them was using them - that's why internet is full of pictures of ( insert your favourite artist ) using Shure SM 57 or 58 on something.

 

[powerwagonjohn]

My GSR Starfire VI is unlike either but similar to both. Spruce top, SD Seth Lover pick ups, lighter than either one but still a semi hollow with laminated top and back and a mahogany neck. Like I said, I really need all 3? Each plays, sounds and feels unique. Different horses for different courses.
Thanks John

 

[Andreas]

Owned both? Or even any Starfire vs any ES?
What was your experience with the guitars?

It’s been a while since the original post, but here are my 5ct:

I had or have a ES 335s from 66, 93, 2014, an Ibanez AS50 from 80 with good PAF clones, and a 80 SF4. My SF is on the heavier side with 4kg, all other guitars weight some 3,5kg plus minus 100g.

The SF and the AS50 are quite similar in sound: very much rock guitars, mid-rangey and thick. All of the above Gibson ES are more refined, more transparent and airy. The mid position on all ES is way more twangy, to me, this is where a real ES always outperforms any other brand. The tonal variety of the SF is much bigger though, the neck PU sound is more bassy (actually, too much for me) than any of the other guitars mentioned. Overall, to me the ES are more delicate sounding.

I had the SF and the 66 ES refretted, all instruments discussed are playing well, but the SF with medium jumbo frets is a league on its own, I have never played another instrument allowing me such fluid and effortless playing, the setup is super low with no rattle or buzz or anything and I can bend like crazy with no limitations.

Just to make matter complete: among the ES, the older the more refined. The 66 is much less heavy and more airy sounding than the newer ones. Often, old Les Paul’s are described as „Tele on steroids“, this fits well to my old ES too.

Any one of the instruments mentioned is great on its own. But I so far kept the 66 ES and the SF, I am debating if I really need the SF. But selling an SF is tough, the brand doesn’t get the recognition it deserves.

 

[F312]

Slight veer to microphones - why is it, that Shure SM57 or SM58 still are so good-selling while there are many in same price-rage wit better sound?

Simply - because at the time they were new there was not much competition and everybody who could afford them was using them - that's why internet is full of pictures of ( insert your favourite artist ) using Shure SM 57 or 58 on something.

Is it because it is the sound it makes? Does a new one sound different than an old one?