Starfire Humbuckers/Brackets

[gilded]

Okay, I drove a whole six blocks and measured the physical dimensions of pickups and surrounds (brackets).

The pickups are: 1 5/16" wide and 2 3/4" long.

The surrounds are: 1 5/8" wide and 3 1/2" long.

When you measure your current pickup/surround footprint, don't worry about where the screws are, just see if what you have now fits 'inside or outside' of the original footprint.

Wink, here's something else to think about. Not only do you want to buy/look for pickups with surrounds, you want to buy pickups with the 'correct height' surrounds.

The pickups/surrounds I measured came off of a '60's CE100D, which is a hollow-body archtop model. On this set, the bridge surround is markedly taller than the neck pickup surround (almost double the height, actually). This height difference is entirely appropriate for an arch-top guitar (like the one the pickups came off of, or like the Duane Eddy DE400 model I put the pickups/surrounds into), but is may not be what you need on a SF IV.

Here are some pics from a friend's '67 SF V with original pickups. Not exactly pristine, is it? My friend and I both love this guitar just the way it is; it's as old and beat up as we are!

This last pic seems to show that the surrounds are the same height.

So, be thinking about surround height when you look for the appropriate pickups.
I'll call my friend with the SF V this week end and get him to measure his surrounds for you.

Good luck!

 

[gilded]

Okay, I drove a whole six blocks and measured the physical dimensions of pickups and surrounds (brackets).

The pickups are: 1 5/16" wide and 2 3/4" long.

The surrounds are: 1 5/8" wide and 3 1/2" long.

When you measure your current pickup/surround footprint, don't worry about where the screws are, just see if what you have now fits 'inside or outside' of the original footprint.

Wink, here's something else to think about. Not only do you want to buy/look for pickups with surrounds, you want to buy pickups with the 'correct height' surrounds.

The pickups/surrounds I measured came off of a '60's CE100D, which is a hollow-body archtop model. On this set, the bridge surround is markedly taller than the neck pickup surround (almost double the height, actually). This height difference is entirely appropriate for an arch-top guitar (like the one the pickups came off of, or like the Duane Eddy DE400 model I put the pickups/surrounds into), but is may not be what you need on a SF IV.

Here are some pics from a friend's '67 SF V with original pickups. Not exactly pristine, is it? My friend and I both love this guitar just the way it is; it's as old and beat up as we are!

This last pic seems to show that the surrounds are the same height.

So, be thinking about surround height when you look for the appropriate pickups.
I'll call my friend with the SF V this week end and get him to measure his surrounds for you.

Good luck!

 

[danerectal]

Hey there Wink. Welcome to the fold. I was combing my usual pass and noticed a 60s hb on eBay. Here is a link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1961-vintage-Gu...ryZ22670QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a discussion here that would clarify without question whether this is a bridge model or not. In fact, here it is. According to Hans, this would be a bridge model.

http://www.letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6061

 

[danerectal]

Hey there Wink. Welcome to the fold. I was combing my usual pass and noticed a 60s hb on eBay. Here is a link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1961-vintage-Gu...ryZ22670QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a discussion here that would clarify without question whether this is a bridge model or not. In fact, here it is. According to Hans, this would be a bridge model.

http://www.letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6061

 

[Wink]

Hey, cheers for looking out guys. Thanks for that drive and measure up gilded.

Looks like I'm just out of luck in that the pick up surround measurements you gave me gilded doesn't quite cover the chasm whoever the lug was who routed the guild to fit these unknown? pick ups. These things sound 'alright', but surely the original HB's would've been so much better!? Side track but anyone have a clue what they could be?

So, i dunno. I'm thinking as long as I get hold of some Starfire HB's with brackets they should still be able to be attached to the guitar. Though they will be sitting in a lot of empty space if you get me? With approx 1/8" crevice on either side (length) visible and a whole lot more beneath the surface.

I'm not super technically minded in terms of instruments but I assume you would want/need more contact from pick up to guitar for resonance and all that? Is a possible solution packing/splicing in some mahogany to make a snug fit for the HB's which will one day come? This is what I thought would eventually seal the deal on a re-finish as if that was the case there would be no doubt sanding etc involved which would invariably feather out some distance onto the body?

Maybe the larger Starfire HB's could be an option?

To be the pessimist/traitor for a moment and consider not being able to find some Starfire HB's + brackets, does anyone know of another Humbucker which sounds close to the Guilds? I haven't heard tons of actual Starfire audio though what I have sounds F****n awesome esp that Lightnin Hopkins last gig on youtube. So I do want to keep as original as I can.

Though....while looking for my Starfire I came across a lot of Starfires with DiMarzio Hb's in them. They make repro vintage units don't they?.... What do you guys think of these or possible others? I'll prepare myself for a slap in the face.


Thanks.

 

[Wink]

Hey, cheers for looking out guys. Thanks for that drive and measure up gilded.

Looks like I'm just out of luck in that the pick up surround measurements you gave me gilded doesn't quite cover the chasm whoever the lug was who routed the guild to fit these unknown? pick ups. These things sound 'alright', but surely the original HB's would've been so much better!? Side track but anyone have a clue what they could be?

So, i dunno. I'm thinking as long as I get hold of some Starfire HB's with brackets they should still be able to be attached to the guitar. Though they will be sitting in a lot of empty space if you get me? With approx 1/8" crevice on either side (length) visible and a whole lot more beneath the surface.

I'm not super technically minded in terms of instruments but I assume you would want/need more contact from pick up to guitar for resonance and all that? Is a possible solution packing/splicing in some mahogany to make a snug fit for the HB's which will one day come? This is what I thought would eventually seal the deal on a re-finish as if that was the case there would be no doubt sanding etc involved which would invariably feather out some distance onto the body?

Maybe the larger Starfire HB's could be an option?

To be the pessimist/traitor for a moment and consider not being able to find some Starfire HB's + brackets, does anyone know of another Humbucker which sounds close to the Guilds? I haven't heard tons of actual Starfire audio though what I have sounds F****n awesome esp that Lightnin Hopkins last gig on youtube. So I do want to keep as original as I can.

Though....while looking for my Starfire I came across a lot of Starfires with DiMarzio Hb's in them. They make repro vintage units don't they?.... What do you guys think of these or possible others? I'll prepare myself for a slap in the face.


Thanks.

 

[Jahn]

no way would i refinish that SF - the wear is in all the right places (below the playing arm, belt buckle) and honest original wear has sooo much more mojo than minty fresh new paint.

 

[Jahn]

no way would i refinish that SF - the wear is in all the right places (below the playing arm, belt buckle) and honest original wear has sooo much more mojo than minty fresh new paint.

 

[gilded]

the pick up surround measurements you gave me gilded doesn't quite cover the chasm.....routed [in] the guild...

Yup, sorry about that. I thought I saw the faint, almost non-existent outlines of the original surround screw holes along the edges of the Grand Canyon, but I was hoping I was wrong....

So, i dunno. I'm thinking as long as I get hold of some Starfire HB's with brackets they should still be able to be attached to the guitar. Though they will be sitting in a lot of empty space if you get me? With approx 1/8" crevice on either side (length) visible and a whole lot more beneath the surface......Is a possible solution packing/splicing in some mahogany to make a snug fit for the HB's which will one day come?

First of all, I wouldn't get in a hurry about all this. You have a good, sound guitar; the basis for a good Project. So, find a luthier down there in NZ who is both willing and able to do this type of work. Maybe our friend and fellow LTG member from NZ, the celebrated Coastie can steer you in the right direction, or maybe you already know someone.

I think your options include: patching it in with a finish touch up, patching it in with a refinish, or re-veneering the top and refinishing the guitar.

If it were here in Texas, I'd get my luthier to fill in the holes with whatever he thought the best wood was for the job. Starfires have a laminate top (yours looks like the top layer is mahogany). The block in the middle of a 'semi-solid' Starfire may also be a laminate of various woods, but I would imagine that they are made out of maple or birch. Again, I think an experienced luthier would 'draw on that experience' and use the particular woods that he or she thought would be best for the job.

Whatever wood a luthier used, they might then patch some thin mahogany veneer over the filled in areas, hopefully getting close to the original grain pattern. The luthier would also try and figure out what kind of cherry stain and filler that Guild used on those guitars to get as close to original as possible. You could do some homework here and ask some of the guys here if they have a clue. There are some former Guild employees who stop in here from time to time; maybe they could assist you if you asked 'em.

Of course, this type of repair job wouldn't be 'invisible', but people wouldn't be able to see it from 10-15 feet away. A lot of guys could live with that, maybe you could too.

You could also go full out and re-veneer another piece of mahogany over the top. That way you could cover up your pickup 'Grand Canyon' holes, the 2 Bigsby screw holes on the top and whatever damage may have been done to the top in the bridge area.

Most guys around here are going to discourage a complete re-finish, because the guitar won't sound the same with new lacquer and/or because most of us like the Mojo of Old Wood and Old Finish. Still, it's your guitar and you ought to do what makes you happy.



Maybe the larger Starfire HB's could be an option?.......I haven't heard tons of actual Starfire audio though what I have sounds F****n awesome esp that Lightnin Hopkins last gig on youtube. So I do want to keep as original as I can.

I agree with original. See below!!!!

Though....while looking for my Starfire I came across a lot of Starfires with DiMarzio Hb's.....What do you guys think of these or possible others?

I'd keep lookin' till I found the real deal. Either that, or, if you have to have a new pickup 'right now', on a strictly temporary basis, see if a Gibson Firebird-type mini-bucker and mounting bracket/surround will fit into the 1st generation Guild Humbucker footprint.

Obviously, the real deal for your guitar would be the 1st Generation Guilders.

Plus, sound-wise, I looked at 'Lightinin's last gig' video on Youtube. I'm almost sure his pickups are the first generation Guild minihumbuckers. So, the 'sound' you want comes from the same pickup as your guitar should have in it!

If you look around the world, for a few months, you can find the pickups. I used to know where there was a set, with surrounds, for $500 (they may still be there, at that price!). I passed on them, though I do know of a guy who got $600 for a set (w/surrounds). Somebody offered a set here within the last year for $200 or 250. You probably won't get that lucky, but you just need to start looking; I found mine (through the help of a really good guy!) in Buenos Aires!!

Back to the pickups that are currently in your guitar. I do remember those pickups from the '70's. I think they were Schallers, but it's not that big a deal. They have a smooth, warm sound, but I don't think of them as being a versatile pickup. I think the guys who liked 'em were the jazzers who were tired of anything resembling the crispness of that most humbuckers are capable of producing. I think it would be a lot easier to get a Lightnin' Hopkins sort of tone with a 1st generation Guild humbucker.

Just keep looking and you'll get there. I figure in a year, maybe less, you will have a kickin' guitar!!

 

[gilded]

the pick up surround measurements you gave me gilded doesn't quite cover the chasm.....routed [in] the guild...

Yup, sorry about that. I thought I saw the faint, almost non-existent outlines of the original surround screw holes along the edges of the Grand Canyon, but I was hoping I was wrong....

So, i dunno. I'm thinking as long as I get hold of some Starfire HB's with brackets they should still be able to be attached to the guitar. Though they will be sitting in a lot of empty space if you get me? With approx 1/8" crevice on either side (length) visible and a whole lot more beneath the surface......Is a possible solution packing/splicing in some mahogany to make a snug fit for the HB's which will one day come?

First of all, I wouldn't get in a hurry about all this. You have a good, sound guitar; the basis for a good Project. So, find a luthier down there in NZ who is both willing and able to do this type of work. Maybe our friend and fellow LTG member from NZ, the celebrated Coastie can steer you in the right direction, or maybe you already know someone.

I think your options include: patching it in with a finish touch up, patching it in with a refinish, or re-veneering the top and refinishing the guitar.

If it were here in Texas, I'd get my luthier to fill in the holes with whatever he thought the best wood was for the job. Starfires have a laminate top (yours looks like the top layer is mahogany). The block in the middle of a 'semi-solid' Starfire may also be a laminate of various woods, but I would imagine that they are made out of maple or birch. Again, I think an experienced luthier would 'draw on that experience' and use the particular woods that he or she thought would be best for the job.

Whatever wood a luthier used, they might then patch some thin mahogany veneer over the filled in areas, hopefully getting close to the original grain pattern. The luthier would also try and figure out what kind of cherry stain and filler that Guild used on those guitars to get as close to original as possible. You could do some homework here and ask some of the guys here if they have a clue. There are some former Guild employees who stop in here from time to time; maybe they could assist you if you asked 'em.

Of course, this type of repair job wouldn't be 'invisible', but people wouldn't be able to see it from 10-15 feet away. A lot of guys could live with that, maybe you could too.

You could also go full out and re-veneer another piece of mahogany over the top. That way you could cover up your pickup 'Grand Canyon' holes, the 2 Bigsby screw holes on the top and whatever damage may have been done to the top in the bridge area.

Most guys around here are going to discourage a complete re-finish, because the guitar won't sound the same with new lacquer and/or because most of us like the Mojo of Old Wood and Old Finish. Still, it's your guitar and you ought to do what makes you happy.



Maybe the larger Starfire HB's could be an option?.......I haven't heard tons of actual Starfire audio though what I have sounds F****n awesome esp that Lightnin Hopkins last gig on youtube. So I do want to keep as original as I can.

I agree with original. See below!!!!

Though....while looking for my Starfire I came across a lot of Starfires with DiMarzio Hb's.....What do you guys think of these or possible others?

I'd keep lookin' till I found the real deal. Either that, or, if you have to have a new pickup 'right now', on a strictly temporary basis, see if a Gibson Firebird-type mini-bucker and mounting bracket/surround will fit into the 1st generation Guild Humbucker footprint.

Obviously, the real deal for your guitar would be the 1st Generation Guilders.

Plus, sound-wise, I looked at 'Lightinin's last gig' video on Youtube. I'm almost sure his pickups are the first generation Guild minihumbuckers. So, the 'sound' you want comes from the same pickup as your guitar should have in it!

If you look around the world, for a few months, you can find the pickups. I used to know where there was a set, with surrounds, for $500 (they may still be there, at that price!). I passed on them, though I do know of a guy who got $600 for a set (w/surrounds). Somebody offered a set here within the last year for $200 or 250. You probably won't get that lucky, but you just need to start looking; I found mine (through the help of a really good guy!) in Buenos Aires!!

Back to the pickups that are currently in your guitar. I do remember those pickups from the '70's. I think they were Schallers, but it's not that big a deal. They have a smooth, warm sound, but I don't think of them as being a versatile pickup. I think the guys who liked 'em were the jazzers who were tired of anything resembling the crispness of that most humbuckers are capable of producing. I think it would be a lot easier to get a Lightnin' Hopkins sort of tone with a 1st generation Guild humbucker.

Just keep looking and you'll get there. I figure in a year, maybe less, you will have a kickin' guitar!!

 

[coastie99]

Wink, are these what you're looking for ?

http://www.timeelect.com/4$ale/4$ale-TE45.htm

I don't know how current this listing is.

Good luck.

 

[coastie99]

Wink, are these what you're looking for ?

http://www.timeelect.com/4$ale/4$ale-TE45.htm

I don't know how current this listing is.

Good luck.

 

[coastie99]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Guild ... 18Q2el1247

 

[coastie99]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1960s-Guild ... 18Q2el1247

 

[Wink]

Cheers gilded, wise words. But I really do feel like a kid waiting for xmas and its boxing day. Theres some music shop in New Jersey that has the HB's with surrounds but they dont reply to e mails and I cant get through on the phone, I thiink the numbers goner non existent. It must be an 'extinct' ad. I hate it when that happens!

Arghh, a year...

Yea I thought the grand canyon would spell significant problems. We only seem to have one 'serious' luthier/refinisher down under and he seems really busy (like he takes months to get your job done Ive read) and Id imagine none of the remedial options would be budget friendly. And my fricken tail piece seems to of been lost by USPS in Phoenix.

I'll keep truckin to make this happen that Lightnin hopkins audio has totally sealed the deal.


Thanks

 

[Wink]

Cheers gilded, wise words. But I really do feel like a kid waiting for xmas and its boxing day. Theres some music shop in New Jersey that has the HB's with surrounds but they dont reply to e mails and I cant get through on the phone, I thiink the numbers goner non existent. It must be an 'extinct' ad. I hate it when that happens!

Arghh, a year...

Yea I thought the grand canyon would spell significant problems. We only seem to have one 'serious' luthier/refinisher down under and he seems really busy (like he takes months to get your job done Ive read) and Id imagine none of the remedial options would be budget friendly. And my fricken tail piece seems to of been lost by USPS in Phoenix.

I'll keep truckin to make this happen that Lightnin hopkins audio has totally sealed the deal.


Thanks

 

[jp]

Wink, are these what you're looking for ?

http://www.timeelect.com/4$ale/4$ale-TE45.htm

I don't know how current this listing is.

Good luck.

I've emailed them about those before, and they never reply. :?

 

[jp]

Wink, are these what you're looking for ?

http://www.timeelect.com/4$ale/4$ale-TE45.htm

I don't know how current this listing is.

Good luck.

I've emailed them about those before, and they never reply. :?

 

[Wink]

Yea thats them coastie with brackets in all, unfortunately I'm pretty sure the whole site is stuck in some rift in the time space continuum. They do/did seem to do some pretty good restorative work too.

Hey do you know of any really good luthiers/refinishers in Chch or at least the south island? Ive heard a lot of good things about Ash guitars in Auckland,not so good that it can take forever if you can even manage to get a spot in the line that is. I know theres a fella in Lyttleton but heard he's more of an acoustic guy. Dont know if you read my predicament regards having to fill portions of the pick up cavities?

 

[Wink]

Yea thats them coastie with brackets in all, unfortunately I'm pretty sure the whole site is stuck in some rift in the time space continuum. They do/did seem to do some pretty good restorative work too.

Hey do you know of any really good luthiers/refinishers in Chch or at least the south island? Ive heard a lot of good things about Ash guitars in Auckland,not so good that it can take forever if you can even manage to get a spot in the line that is. I know theres a fella in Lyttleton but heard he's more of an acoustic guy. Dont know if you read my predicament regards having to fill portions of the pick up cavities?