Sound Hole Size Effect on Sound

valleyguy

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I recently bought and refurbished a '68 D40. I was more than happy with the sound, mellow and clear, exactly what I was looking for. The guitar, however, is a little quiet, perfect for a quiet play in the living room. It was only when I went to put my M1 soundhole pickup in that I discovered how small the soundhole is, I had to take the pickup apart to get it in.

This led me to consider the effect of the soundhole size on volume, so I measured all my guitars' soundhole sizes. Here, diameter in inches:

'68 D40 - 3 5/8
'07 GAD 30 - 3 7/8
'06 D50 - 3 13/16
'81 D25 - 4
'75 D55 - 4
'14 Martin D18 - 4

So looking here I can see why the '68 D40 is quieter than the rest, however, the GAD30 holds its own in volume, and my D50 has held its own in a jam.

So, there is more to volume than merely sound hole size...

Do all early Guilds have smaller soundhole sizes?
 

Heath

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Imo, I would imagine string type and wood type could have more to do with this than minute factions of an inch on the sound hole.
 

dreadnut

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Who'da thunk? I just naturally assumed the sound hole sizes were standardized.
 

plaidseason

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There's a lot to discuss. And most would argue that a wider sound hole creates LESS bass response, but possibly more volume.

I have a parlor guitar where the sound hole requires that I disassemble one of the clamps on my Fishman Rare Earth before installation, and then have to skillfully reattach the clamp.

You can get lost in this . . .
 
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walrus

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Whoa! I'm definitely "lost" in that article! Kudos to anyone who can follow it!

walrus
 

fronobulax

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Remember that the impact of the soundhole depends upon the listener. There are many reports about designs that move the soundhole that make no impression on the listener but are a tremendous improvement for the player.
 

Nuuska

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In loudspeaker design the reflex port is considered a tube - even when there's no actual tube attached to front panel - in that case the tube length = panel thickness. For any given enclosure volume a port can be calculated for desired frequency. I.e. 40Hz for a 80 liter = 2,825cu.ft cabinet could require a port w 4in diameter and 4,104in length - if we enlarge the diameter to 5in - then length increases to 7,663 in - 6in - 12,23in. If we reduce the hole to 3in - then we get 1,559in length - and @ 2in 0,026 length.

They all produce same frequency output at low sound levels - but as sound levels go up the air flow thru the pipe increases and starts to compress - leading to side noise like whistling @ farting. That btw is the exact reason why - rectum gas outlet can be heard.

The goal is to keep vent air velocity low enough by enlargening the port area - that leading to longer pipe - which has to fit inside ( or outside ) the box - and is simultaneously reducing the net air volume of the box.

How all this translates to acoustic guitar - not the faintest idea. . . 😂 - mainly because loudspeaker cabinet is supposed to be stiff and non-resonant, whereas guitar body vibrates variably on entire surface.
 

SFIV1967

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Christopher Cozad

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Alert: In yet one more attempt to explain the relationship between the soundhole and the output of an acoustic guitar this turned into a rather long post.

As any and every aspect of a given acoustic guitar's construction contributes to the end result that we call the "sound" of the guitar, we know that soundhole dimensions must matter. But gaining insight into how and/or why those dimensions matter is an interesting study.

As a boy, I thought sound emanated out of the soundhole in the way sound comes from a speaker cone. I learned that this is not exactly the case. The body of a guitar works like a bellows though, unlike watching a large woofer reproduce your favorite bass lines, the movement is not directly viewable. (If you want to witness the movement indirectly, sprinkle some dry tea leaves on the soundboard of an acoustic guitar lying on its back, strum the strings and watch the leaves dance). The front plate (soundboard, top, etc) is excited into a "pumping" motion by the plucking of the strings. The soundhole governs the volume of air that is moved in and out of the bellows. Using the speaker cone as an example, think of the front plate of the guitar as the paper of the speaker cone. That is where the sound is actually coming from. The soundhole is acting more like the port of the loudspeaker cabinet, as Nuuska alluded to.

A guitar having no soundhole will still generate some sound, though it will be impressively muted. If you were so inclined to build such a guitar (having no soundhole) you can easily verify that there is pressure inside the box that is restricting the movement of the front (and back, in the case of "responsive" back) plate(s). Opening a soundhole in this "test" guitar has an immediate effect on the sound, relative to the size of the hole. To the ear, a series of small holes accomplishes the same goal a one large hole. That goal is to free the plate(s) of restriction due to air pressure.

A guitar with "too small" a soundhole would 1.) Be difficult to quantify without enlarging the existing hole or creating another followed by conducting an A/B test, and 2.) If it could be proven, the guitar would be delivering a less-than-optimal output. In such a case, there would be justification for believing that increasing the diameter of a soundhole makes a guitar louder.

Why not continue to enlarge the hole(s), thinking if a little is good, a lot must be better. If your sound is being captured by a microphone, such as for a performance or recording, there is a point of diminishing return where, without sensitive equipment, you simply can no longer hear the difference. And you run the risk of negatively altering the sound of the guitar as you encroach upon the prime real estate of the "speaker cone." By contrast, if you are using an Under Saddle Transducer, then drill or cut away. Willie Nelson aptly demonstrated that the dimensions of the hole(s) in the front plate of the guitar have little, if any, bearing on the output of a piezo UST.

The dimensions measured by the OP are all in keeping with expected norms established through decades of acoustic guitar construction. Most people are happy with the status quo. Then there are others who cannot leave well enough alone <grin>. In 1979 I took a guitar having one of those well-accepted 4 inch (or so) soundholes and cut a so-called "soundport" into the side of the upper bout closest to my face. Quite by accident (I was intending on installing a makeshift preamplifier) I discovered the guitar immediately sounded better. To me. And I had a revelation: The sound of the guitar (an acoustic guitar), generated by the bellows "pumping" action of the front plate, was more available to those hearers situated in front of the guitar. I, the player and producer of such delicate and harmonious psaltery, was being denied the pleasure of participation. That soundport I had cut, an additional hole in my guitar, had no effect on the sound in front of the instrument. The guitar sounded exactly the same. But it allowed access to the sound from where I was positioned.

For the finicky: a player of an acoustic guitar with a soundport is still not hearing "precisely" what the audience is hearing. But, instead of hearing the sound "around the corner" or "over the edge" of the instrument, a player (who is situated behind and off to one side of the soundboard) is able to hear the sound that is coming off the front plate "through" that soundport.
 

Nuuska

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Having acoustic guitar w strap - start in the middle of large room - strumming - walk towards a wall w wood panels or large window. The sound you hear changes drastically the closer you get to the wall.

I´m still hesitant about making extra hole in my F50R or F512 - the OM-240CE might be interesting guinea pig.

btw - in finnish the expression is "test rabbit"
 

valleyguy

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There's a lot to discuss. And most would argue that a wider sound hole creates LESS bass response, but possibly more volume.

I have a parlor guitar where the sound hole requires that I disassemble one of the clamps on my Fishman Rare Earth before installation, and then have to skillfully reattach the clamp.

You can get lost in this . . .
Actually his article says that a larger hole produces MORE bass.

Interestingly, Helmholtz in the article concludes that the soundhole should be a quarter of the radius of a spherical representation of the inside volume. Is it an oversimplification to say that a 4" soundhole is a quarter of the width of the guitar, 16"?
 

Christopher Cozad

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Now here, it states that a smaller soundhole improves bass.
If you think of acoustic guitar audio as an "inexact" science, the hundreds (okay: thousands) of seeming contradictions can make one feel better. And keep all those heated arguments alive.
 

valleyguy

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Alert: In yet one more attempt to explain the relationship between the soundhole and the output of an acoustic guitar this turned into a rather long post.
Christopher, thanks for the lengthy write up, very interesting.

The addition of sound hole ports certainly help the player hear better, but with more room for air to escape, does that diminish the sound coming out of the front soundhole?
 

Christopher Cozad

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...The addition of sound hole ports certainly help the player hear better, but with more room for air to escape, does that diminish the sound coming out of the front soundhole?
The beauty of how the acoustic guitar generates sound is such that, once a sufficiently sized "port" is created (sufficient in the sense that there is no pressure restricting the movement of the front plate), how much air "comes out of the front soundhole" becomes irrelevant. Whether air enters and exits one center-placed soundhole (X-Braced Guilds, Martins, Gibsons, etc), an offset soundhole (McPherson, Emerald, etc), multiple soundholes (some Ovations, Adamas, etc), or soundhole/soundport combinations (variety of builders), the issue is (for you combustion engine buffs) having sufficient intake and exhaust to prevent "compression." You do NOT want to create a condition whereby the soundboard is unable to freely pump up and down (what is often referred to as "top vibration"). This would be caused by making the front plate too thick, adding too much bracing and/or undersizing a soundhole (I think one would need to look far and wide to ever locate such an acoustic guitar with an undersized soundhole - undersized to the point where its "nose is plugged and it can't talk plain"). Through a lot of experimentation I have come to the understanding that, so long as general acoustic properties are followed in the construction of the instrument, there is little (or no) concern for "oversizing" a soundhole (and that includes adding "soundports").

You aren't "taking the wind out of the sails" by adding soundports, as some have erroneously purported. That isn't how guitars work.
 

walrus

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Speaking of what you hear vs. what an audience hears, I assume everyone knows how different it is to play guitar in a smaller space, like a small bedroom, or the classic - in the bathroom.

Is this more like what an audience would hear? Or simply a more voluminous version of what the player hears?

walrus
 

Christopher Cozad

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Speaking of ...in the bathroom.

Is this more like what an audience would hear?
One would hope not.

Or simply a more voluminous version...?
If I were back in the 8th grade...

Seriously, you do bring up a great point: what your audience is hearing is not the same as what you, the player, are used to hearing (unless you spend a lot of time listening to other people play your guitar). The reverberation you would hear if you were playing your guitar (or singing) in most bathrooms could be likened to playing through a quality amplification system. Once again, your audience would most likely be hearing something different from what you, the player, are hearing. Jokes aside, I think your "voluminous" reference might be most apt, as the sound coming from the front of the instrument is "all it can be" compared to what you are hearing sitting behind it. If you get the chance, have someone play your guitar in front of you. You can fall in love with it all over again.
 
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walrus

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Well, I thought it was a serious question! LOL!

Interesting - even Paul McCartney talked about playing in his "loo" as a kid to hear the guitar better. I was just wondering if it's simply amplification or "echo", or is it closer to what the audience might hear "bouncing back" at you.

Edit - I forgot to reply to your last point. Years ago, I did let someone use my (ex)D-64 at an open mic. This particular person was very talented. It sounded awesome! I'm not sure it sounded as great when I played it, but that's probably a separate issue...

walrus
 
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