Songbird/S4CE serial numbers

[Banjoman]

Hi all,

Thanks for the membership
I have a question that I hope you can maybe help with.
I’m in the process of possibly acquiring my first Guild and I’ve decided on a songbird/S4ce. Now there’s one for sale locally in what looks to be very decent condition.
My question is concerning the serial no. It is labelled on the sticker inside as an S4CE-NT. But the serial number starts with KK. From what I’ve seen on several identification sites an S4CE should have serial number starting with KE and the Songbirds have the serial no starting with KK. I’ve attached the chart from 1990-1994 containing serial numbers for songbird/S4ce. But there’s only an S4CE KE prefix for 1992 and then na for 1993 and on. Did it change to KK from 1993 or what happened? If anyone can help understanding this I would be very grateful

Many thanks in advance from Banjoman

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Someone should be along with an answer momentarily. In the meantime, expecting consistency and rationality from Guild in regard to serial (and model numbers) will be an unmet expectation. That is made worse because the published (and in some cases available) data is incorrect or incomplete. It is also true that Guild was not always consistent with names on a label and names in the catalog. But there will be an explanation.

 

[Banjoman]

Thank you

Welcome. Someone should be along with an answer momentarily. In the meantime, expecting consistency and rationality from Guild in regard to serial (and model numbers) will be an unmet expectation. That is made worse because the published (and in some cases available) data is incorrect or incomplete. It is also true that Guild was not always consistent with names on a label and names in the catalog. But there will be an explanation.

Thank you fronobulax!
Ok so it may just be normal with a Guild

 

[geoguy]

Welcome . . .

Someone else with more specific knowledge may come along, but I would assume that the S/N list is simply not distinguishing between the Songbird and S4CE models, for some years.

The second post in this thread states that the S4CE was introduced in '91, yet there is no entry for it (that year) in the S/N list.

 

[SFIV1967]

The serial number list is simply not correct for those years and we have to wait for Hans' book volume II for the corrected list. The offical list also doesn't contain the KK numbers from 1987, 1988, 1989 for instance.

The second post in this thread states that the S4CE was introduced in '91, yet there is no entry for it (that year) in the S/N list.

Yes, that was confirmed by Hans here (I mean the year): https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/guild-songbird.189314/post-1727936

Ralf

 

[Nuuska]

Hello Banjoman

Welcome to LTG - The Warm Heart Of Internet - ( TWHOI . . . )

As owner of two Songbirds among other nice Guilds I urge you to send picture of the guitar that you are interested in.

We have many persons w knowledge - and what is even better - we are a helpful bunch.

We respect dibs - at least as far as I know. Never heard of any of us cutting in between someones new shopping.

Easiest way to insert pictures - at least for me - is simply copy-paste - hope this helps.

p.s. - I'm located in Finlad - where are you ?

 

[Banjoman]

Thank you all very much for your replies joining this forum has been a real pleasant experience.

Your replies in this thread and private messages have made me certain that I shouldn’t look at the S/N list.

However the listing is already gone. It was either a rather good offer (and within my current budget) or possibly a scam. This had some of the same characteristics as other local scam listings.

Either way sadly I’m not going to get a Songbird this time. But I’ve gained some more knowledge now and will continue my search for more info on this site. Eventually I will find one even though my guitar playing really doesn’t justify buying such a nice guitar



Banjoman from Denmark

 

[fronobulax]

Thank you all very much for your replies joining this forum has been a real pleasant experience.

Your replies in this thread and private messages have made me certain that I shouldn’t look at the S/N list.

However the listing is already gone. It was either a rather good offer (and within my current budget) or possibly a scam. This had some of the same characteristics as other local scam listings.

Either way sadly I’m not going to get a Songbird this time. But I’ve gained some more knowledge now and will continue my search for more info on this site. Eventually I will find one even though my guitar playing really doesn’t justify buying such a nice guitar



Banjoman from Denmark

There is no rule that says your playing has to be worthy of your instrument. If there were, lots of people would be selling. Most of us prefer to see a better instrument as inspirational - we work harder to be worthy of the instrument.

When all the pieces of data come together the serial number list is helpful but with Guilds the serial number is just a small piece of the puzzle.

For the most part we have seen very few counterfeit guilds - built with intent to deceive - and they were pretty easy to detect. What we see more often are "frankenGuilds" - instruments that have some genuine Guild parts, but were not built that way at a Guild factory. The most interesting are prototypes or employee builds. Prototypes were built by Guild, never intended for sale, but made it into the market anyway. Employee builds tend to be assembled at home from Guild parts, or an instrument that was slated for destruction but had a flaw that was fixed by someone instead and eventually sold.

 

[Guildedagain]

Helpful to post pics for future reference.

 

[GGJaguar]

Most of us prefer to see a better instrument as inspirational - we work harder to be worthy of the instrument.

Yes, this. 1000%!

 

[Banjoman]

oops I’m sorry but I forgot all about the pictures when the listing was deleted But I did save the pictures before that.

 

[Banjoman]

oops I’m sorry but I forgot all about the pictures when the listing was deleted But I did save the pictures before that.

And the last one..

 

[SFIV1967]

That was a 1992 one.



Ralf

 

[Banjoman]

Y

That was a 1992 one.



Ralf

Yes and it looked rather nice. I like the early ones with the turn knobs on the waist

 

[grmps]

I like the early ones with the turn knobs on the waist

If you're a sit down player that placement can be bothersome. So, I much prefer the knobs on the shoulder.
I actually have 4 Songbirds/S4CE. 2 with waist knobs and 2 with shoulder knobs They're all in excellent condition.
And professionally set up. I'm actually looking to unload the waist knobs guitars. So, if you're still interested and
still here when I get around to listing them, I'll PM you when I put it in the for sale thread

 

[beecee]

There is no rule that says your playing has to be worthy of your instrument. If there were, lots of people would be selling. Most of us prefer to see a better instrument as inspirational - we work harder to be worthy of the instrument.

Wow.....You just helped me justify not selling off my F-412!
Great couple of sentences there!