Save an Abused 12er hit by a Lawyer (or not)?

andrewpogany

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Not sure how all this works, but here goes... (wow, just reread B4 my post... I wrote a damn book...sorry)

I've owned (and loved) my D35 since the late 70's. Mostly an acoustic player over the years but also acquired a '59 Gibson ES330 somewhere along the line (not 335....it's got the single coil P90s ...very fun ax). I still have my Yahama cheapo but cool looking and ok sounding open head stock 12 string but that thing takes Conan-sized hands and strength to play and is whimpy strength-wise (silk steel strings, etc).

So anyway, local music store is closing down (Salinas, CA) which has been around 73years so that's pretty sad (but a diff story) and I walk in. There's 3 guitars left. One is an acoustic and catches my eye. Because it's a Guild. How come someone didn't snatch this up?

Well, it's pretty beat up and it's a D25 12string with constant high-A string buzz (their 'tech' is supposed to check it out and call me back) supposed owned for the past 25 years by some local lawyer.
I play it. It sounds like a Guild...in other words, awesome ('Cept for the annoying high A string buzzing all the time...perhaps why noone has bought it). Marked at $750, they said they'd take $500. No case. Still seems high to me when I check Ebay, etc. So that is one thing I solicit opinions on from all ye Guild experts.

But then get this: I'm playing the thing and a guy walks in. He's the lawyer who owed it for 25 years! What are the odds? He tells me he loved it and to buy it, blah, blah, blah (and that he still has the case at home and would give it to me if I got him any other brand case for his Ovation...or whatever crap he now has). He owns up to being the "guitar beater" and admits all dings and scratches are from him. I hear the man play. I understand. He's very bad. Very.

So here's the rest:
Model d2512nt (so not a jumbo model, which I've played and heard and like over the years, and which many sites say don't bother unless it's a jumbo, etc; personally, I really like and prefer this thing's sound. Any opinions?

serial D250118. Says made in USA. Arched back. Gold enclosed tuners (kinda wierd that they're gold I'm thinking). Pearl inlay Guild on headstock (not gold paint). Reg dot inlays on frets (like my D35).

The guy swears he didn't have the bridge replaced but it does't look dark enough to me to be orig rosewood. How can I check? does it even matter?

There is about a 2 to 3 inch crack in the seam of the body on the fat end right where the side attaches to the back (no cracks only dings and heavy-handed crappy picking scratches on the soundboard side). Lawyer dude admitted it was due to dropping the poor thing.

IThey claim it's from the late 70's but I can't even find ref to that serial# as low as that starting with "D25" on the Guild site or anywhere else.

I was hoping someone way more obsessed with Guilds than me might be able to help me make up my mind or talk me out of it. It's calling out to me to rescue it from it's cruel previous life....
 

Default

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The crack sounds like something that could be fixed. Check the back of the neck for "finish cracks" :roll: which are caused by over tightening the truss rod. It might need a new nut if one string buzzes at all times.
OTOH, if you really love the sound, who cares what they say on other sites?
I'm sure you'll get more informed opinions in the next little bit. I couldn't tell you if 5 beans is a good deal or not, especially if it's going to run you some bucks to repair.
 

JerryR

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"He owns up to being the "guitar beater" and admits all dings and scratches are from him. I hear the man play. I understand. He's very bad. Very."

Sounds like someone I know...has he also recorded himself playing in a mirror :?: Nah- can't be me, I'm not a lawyer :oops:
 

hansmoust

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andrewpogany said:
serial D250118. Says made in USA. Arched back.
They claim it's from the late 70's but I can't even find ref to that serial# as low as that starting with "D25" on the Guild site or anywhere else.

Hello andrewpogany,

That particular model wasn't around during the late '70s. Actually, it's from 1987.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Metalman

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I say save that guitar from this abusive player. He mis-treated it when he had it, why send that poor instrument back to this beast!

If he was a decent player, then maybe, but he is awful.

Sometimes a guitar "speaks" to us, and that is why we have to buy it. Maybe this one is crying out to you to take it, and not deliver it into the hands of its former tormentor!

Forget the case; get a new one. The first one didn't do much to protect it, did it?

And the price is decent; $500 you say? After that, you can invest a few hundred to get it into shape. I know a very good repairman here on Staten Island if you need a reference.

Dennis
 

kitniyatran

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I say offer $400 & see what they'll do. Sounds like it's in rough shape for $500, & you need a case & probably some work done.
Sometimes it's tricky fitting Guild arch backs with cases, so I'd get the lawyer a $ 60 or so case from Musicians Friend or somewhere, & take the original.
But that's just me. :wink:

PS, it sounds like you need this guitar.
 

andrewpogany

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Thanks a bunch for the advice.

"It might need a new nut if one string buzzes at all times." [would someone please tell the rookie here how you guys due that cool thing of including the little blue sections of prev posts in current post so things are easier to follow?]. The buzz happens all the way up the fretboard, no matter which fret I finger. Wouldn't that take the nut out of the mix? Maybe a saddle problem or high spot on the fretboard nearer to the saddle?

1987 makes sense. How did you find it (this was driving me nuts!)? That would still make it a Waverly and desirable right?

Good advise to secure the case. And I will have the neck checked too.

And thanks for the repair referral but I'm on the West Coast (no worries, I grew up in Cleveland, a "real" town). The repair guy looking at it now (hasn't called me back) works at Santa Cruz guitars which looks a pretty serious outfit that's been around a while (talk about really high $$ beautiful sweet sounding stuff for a mere $4K+...I still think my lowly old D35 sounds better tho:))

Would be mandatory to repair the crack? Doesn't seem to effect anything at the moment. Sound board looks flat. Bridge doesn't look like it's lifting or anything. Action is fine. No loose bracing as far as I can tell.

Thanks again guys. Any other thoughts?
 

jp

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Hi Andrew,

I have a feeling your repair guy is gonna come up with a list that exceeds $150.00. I would bargain down to account for any foreseeable repairs, regardless of whether or not you do them. Standard cost for a new nut is $40.00 and fixing that crack could easily go over $100.00. Dealing with the action and the fret buzz can be simple and cheap or in depth and costly. A nut or bridge issue is a simple fix. Frets can go either way, depending on possible neck issues. If it's only one string, it may be a simple fix. You can also check it out yourself by shimming a piece of paper in the A-string nut slot to see if that eliminates the buzz. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

BTW,
to use the Quote function,
andrewpogany said:
[would someone please tell the rookie here how you guys due that cool thing of including the little blue sections of prev posts in current post so things are easier to follow?]
click on the little button on the top right of someone's post to include the text and imagery. The "code" will automatically appear in your message box and can be edited. You can also enclose something in quotes by highlighting it and clicking the quote button on the corner. There is also a Quote button in the top row of commands in the message box to enclose text you type or cut and paste directly in the message box.

I also had to ask for help with this in the beginning. As is not uncommon tradition here, I was jeered, teased, and ridiculed . . . then comforted, helped, and welcomed.

Welcome to LTG! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 

andrewpogany

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jp said:
You can also enclose something in quotes by highlighting it and clicking the quote button on the corner. There is also a Quote button in the top row of commands in the message box to enclose text you type or cut and paste directly in the message box.

I also had to ask for help with this in the beginning. As is not uncommon tradition here, I was jeered, teased, and ridiculed . . . then comforted, helped, and welcomed.


Hi JP,
WTF? Here's what I get when I tried the quote button. Is there some "view in HTML" button or something I need to turn on? Thanks for your help tho.

Bring on the ridicule and jeering...I (think) I'm ready :shock: (smiles don't work either:( )
 

kitniyatran

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Yep, that's the way the
Quote button
works. I highlighted "Quote button" & clicked "Quote" at the top of the reply box in my previous sentence.
 

Scratch

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I think that one is overpriced in that shape. They are great guitars, but you can find one on eBay in much better shape for that price.

I paid $450.00 for mine (Babe); it was near mint condition; later sold it to Mingus 2112. He still has it. It is on the far right in this picture.

100_0932.jpg


Good luck...
 

chazmo

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Is this guitar on consignment from the lawyer dude? I'm thinking the store just gave him a call when you started talking about this axe, or perhaps he just coincidentally roamed in.

I say name your price (low)... I agree with Scratch that this is probably too high... On the other hand, don't discount the "devil you know" since you can actually try this axe and know what you like. Buying off eBay or some other way where you have to ship can be a mixed bag.

BTW, you're absolutely right that if you're buzzing fretted all the way down the neck, that the issue is not the nut. You may just need a little neck relief, but more likely you'll need a fret dress.
 

andrewpogany

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Thanks so much to all you uberexpert Guild dudes.

Update:
Chazmo - NOT consignment...the lawyer dude just happened to walk in 5 min after I first saw it. Again, I took it as "a karmic sign"...I mean, what are the odds?

Anyway-
I BOUGHT IT!!! Talked to SantaCruz guitar tech dude (got the a string buzz out by shimming up the saddle a tad....says that almost all the strings were almost "floating" on the saddle and that it really could use a new saddle at some point but band-aided it for now). He told me that he played it for 45min or so and that he thought it played and sounded awesome. Which was my take to begin with.
Played it again for 1/2 hour. No buzz. This thing is the sweetest sounding 12er I've ever heard. And a sonic canon when unleased. Just WOW.

Other Stuff:
* He said 500 seemed a bit steep but 250 would be a great deal. he admitted that he really like the sound and action of this guitar. So I offered 'em 350, and to my surprise, they took it!

* The tech dude was taking it back and stayed at the shop to meet me. I went prepared this time with my Sabine and fav Jim Dunlap pick.

* Stamped on back of headstock below S# is "3 87" so i'm guessing Hans is dead on

* Case - lawyer dude has orig case in good shape and will trade for any case for his Takamine. Piece of cake...60$ for a hard shell dreadnought case from local dealer or Guitar Center. Sweet.

* frets perfect. Neck tension, both rods, perectly balanced and perfect. Tech dude did say it appeared the neck was not quite glued at the correct angle at the factory (remember, this dude builds acoustics for SantaCruz) but told me that the action and intonation was fine and not to worry about it. I took my D35 with me for him to check out b4 i parted with my $$ for teh D2512 and he said a)the D35 was perfect, and b)the d25 12's action was almost identical with my d35s so he wouldn't worry about the action on the 12er if I was happy with my d35 (I am).

* As far as the body damage, he didn't think it was dropped. His theory was that someone left it in a hot car for a long time and that the glue from the sides came loose (more than the 3inches i remembered, more like 9 or 10 inches) and had been repaired. Not very beautifully, but said it looks pretty solid and if the slight seam not lining up perfect doesn't bother me (it doesn't), totally not to worry about it.

* Bridge has been effed with (shaved) on the top (low sting side) and is starting to lift ever so slightly (can't get a thin pick in there) which I had also noticed, but he told me just to keep an eye on it and not to worry at this point. He just told me to take it home, play it for a few weeks, humidfy and oil it, and see if I want anything then. (Honest people are SO refreshing these days, no?).

* Want a pick up (and strap nubby) put in eventually, so maybe that's when I'll have him triple check everything, get the new saddle, etc. He recommends the LL baggs. I have a piezo Martin thinline only in my D35. Any thoughts on that guys?

I got the fretboard and bridge soaking in OrangeGlo as we speak to try to rehydrate the poor thing. Looking better after only 1/2 hr.

How the heck can I attach a JPEG to this site? Argggh. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
 

chazmo

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Andrew, don't soak the wood with oil. Just use a little bit and let the fretboard and bridge absorb it. Too much is probably not good for it.

I think the luthier's advice is good, but you should probably have the bridge removed and re-glued soon.
 

MarkRobertD225

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Go with a K&K Pure Western Mini in your "new" Guild. Costs less than a Benjamin and they're easy to install. You'll thank me later :D
 

andrewpogany

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MarkRobertD225 said:
Go with a K&K Pure Western Mini in your "new" Guild. Costs less than a Benjamin and they're easy to install. You'll thank me later :D

Checked it out. Good advice. Ordered. Will let you know how it worked out. Begged the qq on my D35 which has a 15 yr old Martin Thinline under saddle in it (fishman)....if the K&K works out on the D2512er, what harm in "cutting the cord(wire)" of the fishman and installing a K&K? Or should I have the Thinline removed and a new saddle cut? Any opinions / advice?
 
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