Ren leaving Guild?

[Miker71]

Sorry, I know I missed something here, but why did Fender close the New Hartford plant? Obviously they made great guitars. Were they profitable? Why would Cordoba in CA do better?

1980 D55 tobacco burst
1974 D25 cherry

 

[guildman63]

Fender didn't close the NH plant, per se. Fender sold Guild to Cordoba Music Group, and they moved Guild out to Oxnard. That is the abbreviated version. I'm sure others will get into the weeds much deeper.

 

[jeffcoop]

Sorry, I know I missed something here, but why did Fender close the New Hartford plant? Obviously they made great guitars. Were they profitable? Why would Cordoba in CA do better?

1980 D55 tobacco burst
1974 D25 cherry

Others will have more specific comments, I'm sure. But Fender has been a train wreck for several years, and they shut down a number of brands that they'd bought in better times (Hamer fans still weep). The same easily could have happened to Guild if Cordoba hadn't come along. The real shame is that Cordoba insisted on moving production (I'ma bit unclear about the timeline of Guild's sale to Cordoba, and how it lined up with the closure of the New Hartford facility, but I have a clear sense that Cordoba wanted Guild to be in California, where they already had a facility).

 

[txbumper57]

Hey TX, check your prices on Cordoba guitars. Sure, they have several models that are affordable. They also have a number of models that list new for $3500. These are classical guitars, but any quality luthier should be able to make the transition in time if necessary. Besides, there are many excellent luthiers in the US that are capable of not only making their own guitars, but following specs from someone else. It sucks to see Ren go, but who here really expected him to stay for the long term anyway? To me the future is still bright. Timbuc 3 said it best...

I just went and checked musicians friend guildman63, If you punch in Cordoba they do have 2 or 3 guitars that are listed as a private reserve for sale at $3499, They also have plenty more in the $300-$600 range and at least 20-30 models for sale below $700 which is all I have ever seen on the wall at Guitar center. Like I said in the previous post, it was just my opinion.

TX

 

[PTC Bernie]

California recently announced much stricter environmental laws that would definitely affect any commercial operation using NC or other organic finishes. The timing is too coincidental. Maybe he just reached his saturation point.

Some shops, Goodall for example, may have a low enough output to get around the new laws, we'll see.

Whatever the reason, thank you, Ren, for your contributions. Enjoy your retirement. You'll be missed.

 

[Rayk]

Hmm I thought I've seen mid 1,500 models on the Córdoba's I seen a model I'd like to have but not played , guess I better look again .

Hey on another note and like always you folks might already have this info .

My luthier uses a newer type of NCL that's crack resistant maybe there's a chance that's what Cordobaguild is considering ?

I know many if not all hate it but I'm not apposed to Poly just because it's poly . If you have not seen some nice guitars with this finish then you should try to check them out .

My Bluerudge has no lack of volume or tone but the poly finish is thin very thin . My Epi was more like skinning a buck and you about make a rug out it .

It would interesting to research the info regarding both finishes vrs tone/performance .

Back to Ren and this just my warped logic , Ren leaving from past discussion does suggest it was planned .

Now if he jumped ship prematurely then somethings up but who knows when we'd find out what's happened.

On the other hand Guilddoba has spent a tremendous amount of cash to not only move the plant but invest in the building process it seems highly unlikely for it go all over seas but you higher edamacated folks would better know the business side if that endeavor then me .

To me they would have to hirer on a master Luthier like Tx suggested in order to keep going.

Last off the wall thought is does Cordoba need the shop space for its own line of possible new lines and new guitars ? I don't need to go there did I . Lol

Understand I'm still new to the Guild joy as most here know if not all lmao but I do hope they continue on in force !

 

[Neal]

I am confident that Oxnard can reproduce the traditional Guild designs, and do them justice at a competitive price point. The M-20 is a tantalizing example.

My original comment was specifically in reference to the Orpheums. I think they are toast.

 

[SFIV1967]

I wonder if the Orpheum name is part of the deal that CMG got when they bought Guild.

This was discussed a few times earlier, yes, the Orpheum trademark is owned by Cordoba Music Group. https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/owner/CORDOBA MUSIC GROUP, INC.#

My understanding on the Orpheum Production numbers was that there were less than 200 made total across all of the models. ...Maybe Ralf has some hard info on the total production numbers?

The "less than 200" was a number we had come up with at some point during the Orpheum discussions. Orpheums were produced between January 2013 and May 2014. Based on the LTG ownership percentage that number of less than 200 makes sense somehow I'd say. And no, I have no detailed Orpheum numbers/records, I only tracked the 12 string serial numbers.

Did they make the statement that that Gloss finish was actually a Nitrocellulose Lacquer finish and not some Gloss Poly Urethane finish?

The question on FB was not answered, however I stated this before, the article on Reverb about visiting Oxnard (which is well worth a read) showed a ton of interesting info about future plans : "The paint shop is equally impressive, with a focus on using nitrocellulose and hand-sprayed sunbursts." You can't simply switch from a ready to use NCL spray booth to using Urethan! So the assumtion has to be that they are using NCL for the D-55 and F-55 models and others coming up.
Jackson Herrera, the Guild employee, who worked on the Custom D-40 for Richard Fortus wrote on FB: "D-40 they are already in production! D-55 we are really close!"

Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

Sorry, I know I missed something here, but why did Fender close the New Hartford plant? Obviously they made great guitars. Were they profitable? Why would Cordoba in CA do better?

1980 D55 tobacco burst
1974 D25 cherry

No official word. Former employees suggested off the record that the plant was not making enough profit. Definition of how much was "enough" varies with the source.

 

[fronobulax]

Fender didn't close the NH plant, per se. Fender sold Guild to Cordoba Music Group, and they moved Guild out to Oxnard. That is the abbreviated version. I'm sure others will get into the weeds much deeper.

I'd like to disagree. My recollection is that they closed the plant first and then announced the sale of Guild. I am pretty sure that the plant employees were laid off before the Cordoba sale was announced and I do not recall that anyone was officially/publicly offered a job in Oxnard until after they were unemployeed. Only matters when people are trying to chain cause and effect.

 

[fronobulax]

It is perhaps worth reminding folks that a) it took New Hartford a while to ramp up and it was several years before they were making a full range of models and they had a factory full of workers already in place to draw on; and b) a significant portion of the delay in getting Oxnard running was the time it took California to approve the facility and issue permits. My opinion is that it is too early for folks to moan about the demise of American Guilds or give up on older models that have not yet reappeared. I can find many things to worry about but it is too soon to give up hope and expect the Guild brand to disappear or only live on in the Westerly and Newark Street collections.

IMO. YMMV.

 

[Westerly Wood]

My opinion is that it is too early for folks to moan about the demise of American Guilds or give up on older models that have not yet reappeared. I can find many things to worry about but it is too soon to give up hope and expect the Guild brand to disappear or only live on in the Westerly and Newark Street collections.

IMO. YMMV.

this is good! all in good time.

 

[Lacidar]

NEW Guild F-512 production beyond the visible horizon?

Hello, all...

So, would it be fair to say that a new-production F-512 from Oxnard is almost certainly a LONG way off (likely more than a year, quite possibly much longer) and that pages like this one (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/guild-f-512-acoustic-electric-guitar-with-dtar-multi-source-pickup-system#youTubeVideo) are wildly unrealistic in advertising an "available" date less than four weeks from today?

I'm very highly interested in acquiring this particular model, preferably new (new old-stock is fine), but I'm having a very hard time locating one. Opinions and insights solicited, please...

 

[chazmo]

Lacidar,

Welcome to LTG. I don't think any of us has specific information on this. My guess is that, yes, MF is wildly optimistic about this. Perhaps they can still order NOS versions from CMG that were built in NH, but I don't know. Since we haven't really heard anything yet, your best bet is to go used. That said, placing an order with a Guild dealer will potentially get the ball rolling.

 

[txbumper57]

Hello, all...

So, would it be fair to say that a new-production F-512 from Oxnard is almost certainly a LONG way off (likely more than a year, quite possibly much longer) and that pages like this one (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...-dtar-multi-source-pickup-system#youTubeVideo) are wildly unrealistic in advertising an "available" date less than four weeks from today?

I'm very highly interested in acquiring this particular model, preferably new (new old-stock is fine), but I'm having a very hard time locating one. Opinions and insights solicited, please...

I see that this is your first post so let me say Welcome to LTG Lacidar! I would recommend calling Guild's Customer service number on their website. You can see if they have any of the New Hartford made F512's still on the shelf at the factory. If they do you should be able to purchase it through a current Guild Dealer. If not you can place an order like Chazmo stated but I honestly think it will be a few months before they are even making the F512 again if that soon. The estimated arrival dates on sites like elderly and musicians friend have changed several times due to delays in production. Guild has updated estimate prices for the F512 and other traditional models they are planning on making on their website under USA Guilds.

They don't come up for sale that often but if you are lucky enough to find a New Hartford made F512 (2009-2014) used or NOS I would suggest jumping on it if it is in good shape. They are truly top notch in every way possible. Best of luck in your search and again Welcome!

By the way your first few posts are monitored by Moderators to make sure you are not a Robot so don't worry if your posts don't show up right away, They will after a few hours or so.

TX

 

[fronobulax]

Hello, all...

So, would it be fair to say that a new-production F-512 from Oxnard is almost certainly a LONG way off (likely more than a year, quite possibly much longer) and that pages like this one (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...-dtar-multi-source-pickup-system#youTubeVideo) are wildly unrealistic in advertising an "available" date less than four weeks from today?

I'm very highly interested in acquiring this particular model, preferably new (new old-stock is fine), but I'm having a very hard time locating one. Opinions and insights solicited, please...

Guild's website says "coming soon" so you could always contact them directly and and ask "When is 'soon'?" Based upon nothing but intuition and watching companies set and miss availability dates, I'm guessing this will hit retail in time to be under a tree on Christmas morning but perhaps not a whole lot sooner.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Guild's website says "coming soon" so you could always contact them directly and and ask "When is 'soon'?" Based upon nothing but intuition and watching companies set and miss availability dates, I'm guessing this will hit retail in time to be under a tree on Christmas morning but perhaps not a whole lot sooner.

that would be awesome timing. not too far off at all, like 4 months.

Go Guild!

 

[adorshki]

Has Guild produced any of their guitars with the old standard lacquer finish?
All that I have seen coming out of California is satin finishes.
California has the tightest regulations in the US when it comes to the use of lacquer.

CA might have started the ball rolling 25 years ago but in fact CARB Standards are being adopted all over the country and Sandy pointed out a couple of years back that Connecticut and a lot of the east coast is already on board with 'em, reputed to be one of the reasons Fender opted out of New Hartford:
Cost of installing the "scrubbers" for air quality was prohibitive.
Like tom says, this whole NCL thing is a non-issue if Neal's source (his local Guild factory rep, which I call "credible")) was correct: They had permitting to apply it long before they started production.
The real permitting hang-up was over current draw of an old piece of machinery.

 

[adorshki]

I have had my worries from the day Cordoba purchased Guild due to the fact that before that, Cordoba was really only known for making $300-$600 foreign made nylon string guitars that plastered the walls at Guitar Center. I hope they don't turn Guild into the same thing, It would be a shame. Of course this is all just my personal opinion so take it for what it is worth.
TX

Their MIC steel flat-tops also had a decent rep according to Ralf, but most important was that they actually make very high-end classicals in Oxnard.
World-class high-end according to reports.
THAT kind of luthiery skill is readily transferable to steel strings and if you think getting a steel-string to sing is an art, think about what it takes to get a nylon string guitar to sing, with so much less tension on the soundboard......
Edit: GUIldman, in my rush to post I missed that you'd touched on this but it bears emphasizing anyway.
So let's dispel this myth of "no expertise" at Oxnard and qualify that as "No steel flat-top experience".
I think Ren had enough time to pass on whatever he was willing to pass on.

 

[Westerly Wood]

"NCL, no NCL. You are too busy worrying about the past and the future." There is an old saying, the past is history, the future is a myster, the present is a gift, that is why they call it "satin""...Kung Fu Panda