Ren leaving Guild?

[fronobulax]

They were produced only from 1/13 to 5/14. No way to know for sure, but there are probably fewer than 1000 that are out there. Maybe even fewer than that, given that total Guild production during that time frame was perhaps 6000-7000 guitars, assuming an average of 15 per day.

Any basis for that production estimate? My sources, combined with my failing memory, indicated that production at New Hartford never exceed 5000 instruments per year after Guild arrived and not all of those were Guilds. Orpheums are going to be pretty scarce.

As for Ren he did suggest at LMG III that he had been coerced out of retirement and that his tenure at Guild would be limited. My guess is that someone at Cordoba made it worth his while to stay around and set up the new plant but his plan probably always was to retire again after things were up and running.

 

[fronobulax]

makes you wonder.....was any of the Orpheum "design" exclusive to Ren (personal copyrights, etc) or would everything he did to build the Orfs become "property" of Guild and Guild ownership? maybe it's all part of this whole guitar building industry where nothing is really "protected" any more.....like has been discussed here a few times, what can you actually patent? seems like anyone can just take apart someones product and then attempt to build your own version, only better!!! maybe Ren will custom build a few Orf clones up in the mountains....if he has the legal "license" to do so!

PS.....glad none of you bought mine when they were for sale.....now I have a closet full of "Fergusens"!!!

Almost every company I have worked for or heard about owns any intellectual property a person creates while an employee. There are exceptions but they usually involve consultants, not employees, and usually involve lawyers before work begins. Ren may have made an effort to preserve his rights to intellectual property but I would guess Guild can legally produce more Orpheums to the same specs and may be even say "as designed by Ren Ferguson".

I suspect the bigger question would be whether they can be made in Oxnard and sold at sufficient profit.

 

[txbumper57]

My understanding on the Orpheum Production numbers was that there were less than 200 made total across all of the models. I remember hearing that number here on the forum from other Orpheum owners. As a rough estimate in the "Orpheum Owners" thread in the LTG only section the combined Orpheum ownership here on the forum is less than 30 If I recall correctly. Maybe Ralf has some hard info on the total production numbers? I know he keeps some pretty detailed records.

TX

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Has Guild produced any of their guitars with the old standard lacquer finish?
All that I have seen coming out of California is satin finishes.
California has the tightest regulations in the US when it comes to the use of lacquer.

Ren knows that a high gloss nitro lacquer finish is a must in order to continue to produce guitar that rival our beloved Westerly guitars.
If Guild can't produce these guitars right now, I can see why Ren would call it quits.

 

[guildman63]

As frono said, Ren never wanted to go to Oxnard in the first place, so the tight CA regulations likely have nothing to do with his decision to retire now. He's a country boy at heart, and I hope he enjoys a long and happy retirement in Montana, or wherever he calls home. Guild owes him a lot for all he's done over the last several years. Thanks, Ren!

 

[JohnW63]

I wish I could have played an Orpheum. I suspect the price to get one will just climb, from now on. I just really don't need to spend 2 grand or more for a guitar. My $1000 F47R and D-55 should be enough.

 

[rwmct]

The Orpheum I played was very nice, but I don't know that it was better than a good D-55. I would not lament them too much. The regular Guild models are plenty fine guitars. I would rather see them back making those.

 

[Neal]

My guess of 500 to 1000 Orpheums is probably way high. If 5000 per year in total production at New Hartford is accurate, there would have been perhaps 7000 Guilds produced between 2/13 and 5/14.

My doubts about the reemergence of Orpheums at Oxnard are based on several observations:

1. From Corona to Tacoma, and again from Tacoma to New Hartford, Fender sent an advance team to the new site to help get new staff on board and making prototypes before production started. When New Hartford closed, Guild got sold, and moved to California before there was a chance to teach the new workers how the guitars were made. Ren represents the only known link in Oxnard as to how guitars were built in New Hartford.

2. Most of the Traditional Series designs were developed in Tacoma, and New Hartford staff had expertise to call upon, first with the D-55, when building prototypes of the D-40, D-50, D-55, F-30, F-40, F-47, F-50, F-50R, F-412 and F-512.

3. What Guild has produced so far in Oxnard equates generally to the Standard Series guitars in New Hartford. And that took them two years to accomplish.

4. Orpheums are a significant departure from traditional Guild design. They feel different, play different and sound different. At their price point, I doubt that Cordoba is willing to take a chance on them in Ren's absence.

Again, I hope I am wrong, but if I am, it will be quite a while before we see any Orpheums come out of Oxnard,

 

[Rayk]

I wish I could have played an Orpheum. I suspect the price to get one will just climb, from now on. I just really don't need to spend 2 grand or more for a guitar. My $1000 F47R and D-55 should be enough.

Don't worry John never know something is only worth what one is willing to pay .

I'm not trying to bash but the one I played did not set me on fire so I won't suffer lol but if your a collector well then the sky is the limit mean time the rest of us/ me will search other brands if need be

 

[jeffcoop]

The thing that scares me about this news is what others have noted: that there's a real lack of guitar-building knowledge among the Oxnard employees, let alone Guild knowledge. I trusted Ren to get things going, but Oxnard production is still at a very early stage--they're only building very basic stuff now. They're going to need a knowledgeable and steady hand as Guild continues to ramp up production and (re)introduces higher-end models. And use have know idea who that hand will be.

 

[twocorgis]

The thing that scares me about this news is what others have noted: that there's a real lack of guitar-building knowledge among the Oxnard employees, let alone Guild knowledge. I trusted Ren to get things going, but Oxnard production is still at a very early stage--they're only building very basic stuff now. They're going to need a knowledgeable and steady hand as Guild continues to ramp up production and (re)introduces higher-end models. And use have know idea who that hand will be.

That's precisely my fear, Jeff. I'm afraid that Guild is going to end up being Asian only, and that just devalues the brand further. Like we needed any help with that.

 

[davismanLV]

Has Guild produced any of their guitars with the old standard lacquer finish?
All that I have seen coming out of California is satin finishes.
California has the tightest regulations in the US when it comes to the use of lacquer.

Ren knows that a high gloss nitro lacquer finish is a must in order to continue to produce guitar that rival our beloved Westerly guitars.
If Guild can't produce these guitars right now, I can see why Ren would call it quits.

TMG, maybe you haven't been around lately, but we've already seen a preview of an NCL lacquer guitar that's been posted on FB and the Guild website I believe. That has NOTHING to do with Ren retiring. I'm sure they had an agreement before he came on. And now he chooses to leave. That's all. It has nothing to to with gloss or lacquer.

 

[txbumper57]

First off I want Oxnard to succeed. I don't want to imagine a world without USA made Guilds in it. If they really want to be successful in Oxnard they need to tighten up QC to start with. It doesn't take very many hiccups to get out in the real world before people start forming not good opinions.

One way I think they can "Bridge the Gap" from New Hartford to Oxnard now that Ren has Retired would be to try to get Jason Mcintyre on board from New Hartford. From his signatures on the guitars he had his hands on he pretty much was part of building almost every "Magic Filled" Guild model at New Hartford from the Traditional series to the Custom Shop and even the Doyle Dykes models as well as the Fender Custom Shop Acoustics. I think his combined knowledge of Building techniques and product design process along with Building materials from New Hartford would be invaluable to setting things on the right track for Oxnard now and in the future.

I have had my worries from the day Cordoba purchased Guild due to the fact that before that, Cordoba was really only known for making $300-$600 foreign made nylon string guitars that plastered the walls at Guitar Center. I hope they don't turn Guild into the same thing, It would be a shame. Of course this is all just my personal opinion so take it for what it is worth.

TX

 

[davismanLV]

They'll be fine. Don't hit the panic button.....

 

[txbumper57]

TMG, maybe you haven't been around lately, but we've already seen a preview of an NCL lacquer guitar that's been posted on FB and the Guild website I believe.

I don't facebook so I wanted to ask, Did they make the statement that that Gloss finish was actually a Nitrocellulose Lacquer finish and not some Gloss Poly Urethane finish? Not trying to rile things up, just trying to clarify, Thanks!

TX

 

[davismanLV]

Someone mentioned it in that post and verified that the finish was NCL. That's what I recall reading. Beyond that I don't know... I believe about half of what I read, and even less of what I hear. I'll just sit here and wait.....

 

[txbumper57]

Someone mentioned it in that post and verified that the finish was NCL. That's what I recall reading. Beyond that I don't know... I believe about half of what I read, and even less of what I hear. I'll just sit here and wait.....

I just went back and read the thread here on the forum and there is no confirmation yet in the thread that the finish is NCL. Just that someone asked and they were waiting for a reply.

TX

 

[Westerly Wood]

Fortunately, the Westerly plant made a boatload of guitars, most certainly available across most channels for a generation yet to come.

 

[davismanLV]

People are so quick to abandon ship. They just started making guitars again. Give them a minute or so, or even a year. It'll be okay..... And if they don't come through for us, then we can ditch them like the diseased whores that we.... oh wait. I mean we can judge them harshly then. LOL.

 

[guildman63]

Hey TX, check your prices on Cordoba guitars. Sure, they have several models that are affordable. They also have a number of models that list new for $3500. These are classical guitars, but any quality luthier should be able to make the transition in time if necessary. Besides, there are many excellent luthiers in the US that are capable of not only making their own guitars, but following specs from someone else. It sucks to see Ren go, but who here really expected him to stay for the long term anyway? To me the future is still bright. Timbuc 3 said it best...