Nickel / Monel strings on flattops (and archtops...)?!?!

[SledDawg]

There was a recent thread on another forum (Gear Page, maybe TDPRI?) about strings used on archtops. It morphed into flattops as well. At some point somebody posted that Tony Rice used nickel wound strings on his guitar. Others chimed in also recalling the use of nickel and specifically Gibson Monel strings on flattops and archtops back in the day. Not bronze strings. Somebody said bronze wounds started really being used in WWII when nickel was in short supply for the war effort.
This seems like a huge change to me, that affected the sound of music. Now I want to go back and listen to a lot of those records again to see what I hear.

I vaguely recall when I was taking lessons early on, I had nickel-wound strings on my cheap Harmony archtop. My guitar teacher was an old-school Jersey Italian player, and I'm sure he advised me. He had them on his guitar as well - I think it was an L5 or similar.

Any comments or memories of this? Anyone tried it? What would you put on a modern guitar to get this sound?

 

[penname]

I’m a big fan of Monel strings. I use Martin Monel strings on my Guild Oxnard M-20, and have Newtone Monel strings on most of my other guitars. One guitar uses Martin Titanium strings and they are nickel wrapped. Only my rosewood back/sides still have bronze strings.

 

[Neal]

Most guitars from the 1930's, flattop and archtop, would have come from the factory strung with monel strings. I keep them on the three guitars I own from the '30's. They are warm-sounding and last a long, long time.

As an aside, monel is a "puritan" alloy, meaning that it is found in nature. It is actually found only one place on the planet, Sudbury, Ontario. That is where, almost two billion years ago, a six-to-nine mile wide meteor impacted the earth and drove 9 miles into the crust, allowing magma from the mantle to fill the crater. All around the edges of this ancient crater, monel is found in abundance.

So, essentially, when you are playing monel strings, what you are hearing is the result of the third largest meteor known to ever hit Earth.

If you think I am making all of this up, read:

Sudbury Basin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shihan]

I have a 1935 Gibson L-50; I use Monel strings on it and I like them a lot; as Neal says above, warm and last a long time. I tried them because I use an old DeArmond Rhythm Chief PU on it, and the original instructions recommended monel strings. I had never heard of them before, and was surprised to find they still existed.

 

[ClaytonS15]

I have tried the Martin Retro Tony Rice monel strings on my GV-52 and loved them when they were new. Keep in mind, they will mellow. Now I do prefer John Pearse phosphor bronze strings on that guitar, but, I HATED them when they were new, so go figure.

All that said, I have the Martin Retro monel strings on my Republic wood bodied resonator guitar and I LOVE them. So, I guess I'm saying it depends on the guitar and the amount of brightness you want to hear from your strings. I say go for it and experiment.

 

[ClaytonS15]

I have a 1935 Gibson L-50; I use Monel strings on it and I like them a lot; as Neal says above, warm and last a long time. I tried them because I use an old DeArmond Rhythm Chief PU on it, and the original instructions recommended monel strings. I had never heard of them before, and was surprised to find they still existed.

Just to add a few thoughts...

Pure nickel strings like D'addario, John Pearse, DR (RIP Mark Dronge), (NOT nickel-plated!), will be fairly similar to monel strings and will work well with magnetic pickups. I'm planning to try a few options with my resonator (it has a Lace humbucker). With my GV-52, it doesn't matter because I mainly play it acoustically and, when amplified, I have a K&K soundboard pickup.

 

[gjmalcyon]

All that said, I have the Martin Retro monel strings on my Republic wood bodied resonator guitar and I LOVE them. So, I guess I'm saying it depends on the guitar and the amount of brightness you want to hear from your strings. I say go for it and experiment.

That's my experience - some guitars sound very nice with the Tony Rice Retros, others not so much. It's not related to the body wood nor size - I haven't figured out what it is.

 

[Bill Ashton]

Agree with the learned member above...my D55 and F47R hate Monel or nickel-silver strings, and are very happy with anyone's Phosphor-Bronze. That said, my H&D "Pilgrim," their take (one of many) on the Tony Rice guitar likes Monel, nickel-silver or any Martin string. It probably is a function of the guitar at hand, and to a great extent your ear

 

[Neal]

Agree with the learned member above...my D55 and F47R hate Monel or nickel-silver strings, and are very happy with anyone's Phosphor-Bronze. That said, my H&D "Pilgrim," their take (one of many) on the Tony Rice guitar likes Monel, nickel-silver or any Martin string. It probably is a function of the guitar at hand, and to a great extent your ear

Your Huss & Dalton would probably sound great strung with department store rubber bands.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have tried them on a few of my guitars.
They definitely sound different from PB or 80/20 strings.
Currently I have them on my custom build Dread with Zebra Wood back and sides.
They sound great on this guitar.
A bit brighter than PB strings but still have a lot of bottom end.

I didn't like them on my Rosewood guitars though.

 

[Sats]

I'm very curious about them as well. I've been playing for 45 years and I still don't really know what strings I like! Every acoustic guitar has its own voice, so guitar/strings is always a unique experience. (On Strats, just give me 10s.).
I use Monel strings on a '69 J-50 and they sound lovely. FWIW, my J-50 is a very early square-shoulder version, but built prior to all the terrible '70's things that Gibson did – it's a champ.

 

[Guildedagain]

what you are hearing is the result of the third largest meteor known to ever hit Earth.

Never happened ;]

All kidding aside, Martin "Retro" Monels are just fantastic and I need to buy some more.

They don't die fast that's for sure. And without the brashness associated with fresh Phosphor Bronze strings, you get to hear the "wood" of the guitar more from the moment they are installed.

Fabulous electric slide tone.

prior to all the terrible '70's things that Gibson did

The most accomplished player in our acoustic band has an - entry level painted logo - Gibson Dread with plain non adjustable saddle and now a hole in the top thx to his crazy heeler "Merle" who knocked something down on the guitar, which I've played often and it's GREAT ;] I swapped back and forth between this guitar and the other guitar players supposedly hot sh*t Blueridge that's he's had for decades now at our last jam, and the Gibson made the Blueridge sound like a turd by comparison.

A very entry level 70's Gibson Dread with pencil neck, like an electric almost. Sounds lovely, as good as any Dread could hope to sound.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I know Tony played with non-nickels for decades cause they just didn't make them anymore.
And I know he only played medium gauge.

Cause his Clarence White D28 is so infamous, Martin approached TR or maybe it was the other way around, about making some more Monel strings. I have played my Br using the Tony Rice mediums in past and they are great strings, for sure.

I think he remarked when he strung up his D28 with the Monels for the first time in decades: "Welcome back old friend". He had missed that sound.

I also seen a clip of Tony playing this D28 and he made like a mistake or he was not able to play a chord or run the way he wanted: "Come on you ole stubborn mule". LOL

he was talking to the guitar.

 

[Guildedagain]

Guitars need to be properly trained, and sometimes just plain nervous, forgetful, or in the case of a borrowed one "don't know your songs" ;]

 

[Neal]

Guitars also forget the words to the song you wrote!

 

[Br1ck]

I've been using nickle bronze mandolin strings for a while now, and I'm trying them on my Martin 00 15 custom now. Liking them a lot. They seem to sound good right away with little break in time. Just yesterday I put a set on my 65 Texan. They sound great. I've been changing strings with more frequency these days, upping my string expenditure significantly. A worthy cost. Averaging three weeks playing time on guitars, maybe six on the mandolins.

 

[kostask]

Monel alloys can be man made, and are not only found in the Sudbury meteorite. It is the only naturally occuring monel alloy, but man made monel has been made that duplicates the Sudbury alloy, as well as man made alloys that add other things into the alloy, like titanium or cobalt (not present in the Sudbury alloy. It is used in aerospace, marine, and oil and gas industries, for trolling line (fishing), and more than likely, guitar strings have added nickel (for its magnetic properties in electric guitars) beyond the naturally occurring alloy.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Why does this damn guitar keep buying other guitars and upsetting my wife? we need to have a talk...

 

[donnylang]

I've used the Martin Retro strings on a few different Guilds. Though I like certain aspects of them (they last long, and IMO maintain a certain bright clarity), ultimately they don't sound "right" to me- they sound kind of like putting electric strings on an acoustic guitar.

Now I don't know what the exact differences are, but GHS White Bronze are much much better IMO. The GHS have some of that monel sound & vibe, but still have the depth and fullness of a "normal" acoustic string. In fact, for the '67 D40 I used to have, the White Bronze was my fave string overall for that particular guitar- and I tried a lot.

 

[Dadzmad]

I use the Martin Retro Monels on my Godin Kingpin (recent Gibson ES125 type) These are magnetic enough for a P90 and sound great unplugged. I have a set of Curt Mangan Electric/Acoustic Monels on my Guild S4CE right now. Makes this guitar sound fatter plugged in but the jury is still out on this. That said I put pure nickels on my solid bodies and bronze strings on my acoustics. For acoustics - bronze strings have that characteristic "ring" while the monels have a more fundamental punch like what you hear on the old recordings. It's something you just have to try out.