Newark St. S-100 (first batch, 2013) discussion ...

[Default]

If the pot isn't a 500k then it's probably a 200k.

That's the value. Going for the jazz market.

 

[Bluesra]

My 2 cents, I have a 2015 S-100 and unplugged it is a remarkably lively guitar, played side by side with a Gibson SG and LP my Guild feels the liveliest of the bunch, I suppose I got a good one.

 

[Los Angeles]

My 2 cents, I have a 2015 S-100 and unplugged it is a remarkably lively guitar, played side by side with a Gibson SG and LP my Guild feels the liveliest of the bunch, I suppose I got a good one.

Yes, most reports seem to align with yours. whatever may have been wrong with the first batch must have been rectified by around 2015 or so.

 

[polarizing]

I love this section of the demo (by RJ Ronquillo)

 

[squidfish]

Hi all,

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Guild Polara S 100 reissue in white.

From my reading it sounds like I don't want an early batch one from 2013.

Am I right that the the guitar's being white rules out that possibility --- early batch were all cherry red?

The pickups definitely look HB-1 to me --- are the mini buckers identifiable visually, or do they use the same cover?

Thanks in advance

 

[Default]

Minibucker is considerably smaller and lacks the extra height adjustment screw.

 

[SFIV1967]

Minibucker is considerably smaller and lacks the extra height adjustment screw.

LB-1 (first picture) vs. HB-1 (second picture). The larger HB-1 has two tilt/height adjustment screws on the bass side.





Ralf

 

[squidfish]

thanks, that's very helpful! I have it home with me now, and it's indeed the HB-1's. Very happy with the purchase, my first non-bass guitar

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Of all the solid body electrics Guild has made over the years, the 1970's era S-100 is a clear standout. The guitar's legend seems to have only grown over the years. So when Guild decided to reenter the electric guitar market with a line of guitars produced overseas, it's no surprise that the S-100 was on the short list.

When the initial Newark Street collection was announced to such great fanfare and excitement, I was instantly excited to see the inclusion of the S-100 ... and then it took me about 5 seconds to notice all the problems.

What's with the pickups? Where's the phase switch? And are you really only offering it in cherry? Why? So that it would blend in with the starfire reissues? Wrong decade, guys!

Yes, cherry was the second most common S-100 color after Nature Boy, but I don't think it was all that smart of a call to make so many of the NS guitars cherry, and it was definitely a mistake to offer them ONLY in cherry. It takes about two seconds inside of a guitar store to figure out that every electric guitar model from the cheapest to the most expensive is offered in at least 2-3 different colors. In a car lot, the color of the car is often the difference between a sale and no sale, especially if a young person is doing the buying (or at least the choosing).

But the worst of these choices was definitely launching the guitar with the wrong pickups.

RIght off the bat, I was worried that this S-100 was not going to sell. Of all the S-100 fans here at LTG, I can't recall anyone placing an advance order for one of these guitars, in fact the owners roster shows hundreds of S-100's from the 70s and 90's and only 5 2013's owned by LTG members.

Anyway, after the launch, we heard several times from the guys behind the scenes that the NS guitars were NOT intended to be historical reproductions, but more like modern interpretations of classic Guild designs, produced with ear for sound and a focus on affordability. Understanding that, I was willing to give the S-100 a chance.

Eventually, sound clips of the guitar appeared on youtube and various sites around the web, and I was tremendously annoyed that clip after clip only featured the S-100 through a driven amp or distortion box. They'd play some 70's metal riffs and say "so there you have it" and end the video. Something was wrong here. I really needed to know what the guitar's natural sound was with these new pickups. It was clear that the only way for me to find out was to track one down and play it.

A few months later, True Tone in Santa Monica had one on the floor as well as several other guitars in the Newark street line. I got to play many of these guitars both plugged in and unplugged.

In my opinion, just judging it on playabliity and quality of sound, the S-100 was by far the worst guitar in the entire Newark Street line up. After just a few moments playing it unplugged, I could tell that it felt dead and lifeless. Through an amp, it sounded thin and ragged. It didn't sing, it squeeled. It didn't bark like a doberman, it yipped like an poodle. INSTANT PASS.

The guys at True Tone knew that I was a Guild snob, and they knew that I came in that day to demo the NS guitars. and in the end they knew that no matter how much fun I had playing the hollowbodies and the artistocrat, I couldn't get over how terrible the S-100 was. I felt deflated.

It wasn't until months later that I heard that the factory botched the specs for the bridge pickups in the mini humbuckers and it all made sense to me. Would it have made a difference that day? I don't know.

But still, even if they built the pickups to match the 60's mini humbuckers perfectly, I still think that they should not have put them on the S-100! In fact, with the lineup of Newark Street guitars focused entirely on the 50's and 60's, I don't think they should have released the S-100 reissue at all.

If they absolutely HAD to release a solid body with these pickups, the better thing to do in my opinion was to make a modern interpretation of the Thunderbird or perhaps even the Polara. Or maybe an in-between version that had the T-bird shape and mini HBs but with the wiring and pickup selector of the Polara and 70's S-100s. They could have called it the S-150 or something.

In the end, relaunching the S-100 was shamefully mishandled. And it was also a real missed opportunity. If properly built and marketed, this was a chance for so many players to finally know - first hand - what the big deal was about when it came to S-100's.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me if the new S-100s are historically accurate or not. The important thing is to capture the look, the feel and the sound of the good ones from the 70's.

And the one thing Guild MUST do is be certain to never release a guitar until it has truly earned the "GUILD" logo on the headstock.

The first run of S-100's were designed by Fender around 2012 and Cordoba was stuck with whatever was manufactured when they purchased the brand in 2014. So yes, the first batch of NS S-100's have the mini hum buckers (LB-1) and the plastic inlays, similar to the ones used on the Aristocrats and SFV's. The KSG serial numbers (SPG factory) should indicate this style. In 2015 Cordoba started manufacturing the S-100's with the KWM serial numbers (WMI factory) and added the larger HB-1 style pickups, and used pearl block inlays. They are definitely different feeling and sounding guitars, and when i tried them at NAMM 2013 at the Fender booth i didn't like them either. I have toured regularly with my 15' S-100, and although it is different in sound and feel then the venerable 70's S-100s, it sounds and plays great and has that classic harp like "Guild" sound because of the position of the tailpiece. Its a workhorse, and maybe i got lucky, but there is a new batch of S-100's coming down the line and it may be worth revisiting them at some point. For what its worth, here is mine in action, just a little amp reverb and delay on occasion. No gain.

Dylan

 

[GAD]

Those Tiny Desk concerts are so cool.

 

[SFIV1967]

The first run of S-100's were designed by Fender around 2012...and Cordoba was stuck with whatever was manufactured when they purchased the brand in 2014. The KSG serial numbers (SPG factory) should indicate this style. In 2015 Cordoba started manufacturing the S-100's with the KWM serial numbers (WMI factory) and added the larger HB-1 style pickups, and used pearl block inlays.

Hi Dylan, that is not completely correct, there is a part missing in your summary.

The HB-1s were already introduced during 2014 when the S-100 was still made by SPG (Sound Professional Guitar Co, Ltd.) and that change might have been planned by FMIC already. See the guitar GAD reviewed, which actually has a 2014 serial number:



The change from SPG to WMI (World Musical Instrument Co. Ltd.) happened later under CMGs ownership in 2015 as this WMI made S-100 shows:



You can easily visually see the difference between the SPG model (KSG serial) and the WMI made model (KWM serial) on the lid over the pot chamber. It has a different shape and was mounted with only 4 screws on the former SPG versions ("vintage correct") and mounted with 6 screws on the WMI made S-100 model.

SPG (left) vs. WMI (right):


Also the tuners are different.
SPG (left) used 18:1 Grover® Sta-Tite™, a mix of a 97 series back with classic round buttons, made for Guild.
WMI (right) is using standard 14:1 Grover® Sta-Tite™ 98 series tuners.




Ralf

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Hi Dylan, that is not completely correct, there is a part missing in your summary.

The HB-1s were already introduced during 2014 when the S-100 was still made by SPG (Sound Professional Guitar Co, Ltd.) and that change might have been planned by FMIC already. See the guitar GAD reviewed, which actually has a 2014 serial number:



The change from SPG to WMI (World Musical Instrument Co. Ltd.) happened later under CMGs ownership in 2016 timeframe as this WMI made S-100 shows:

View attachment 22032

You can easily visually see the difference between the SPG model (KSG serial) and the WMI made model (KWM serial) on the lid over the pot chamber. It has a different shape and was mounted with only 4 screws on the former SPG versions ("vintage correct") and mounted with 6 screws on the WMI made S-100 model.

SPG (left) vs. WMI (right):


Also the tuners are different, SPG used Grover and WMI no-name.




Ralf

They started making the KWM (WMI factory) models in 2015, as mine is that. @GAD's review headline is of a 2015, but with a 2014 serial number from the SPG facility with the trademarks of their origins (plastic inlays, wider headstock, pointy Grover tuners, 4 screws on the backplate). It certainly is odd that the normal HB-1 pickups are on it, so it's possible that it is a transition guitar after customer backlash or a Cordoba modification mid-production. I know they were trying out some new parts manufacturers in Korea at the time, but my 2015 guitar has all the "updates" typical of the WMI factory as you pointed out above. I didn't go into detail because i was more focused on the improved quality and playability between the factories for this particular model, and Guild still uses both for their other guitars. My Starfire IV is SPG and its amazing, so i guess the lesson is know what you want out of your NS S-100 before you purchase a used one. For consistency id suggest anything 2015 to current.

Here are some photos of mine for posterity. I swapped out the 50's era truss rod cover (which should only be used for that era of models IMO) for a 70's repro ($5 on ebay), and the yellow switch tip for a black one. The no-name tuners on the image you posted above and on mine are Grover, as you can see just beneath the sprockets, and the edges are a little softer and the shafts are thicker. My guitar was #17 off the line that year.

Dylan

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Those Tiny Desk concerts are so cool.

Yea man, especially during the pandemic. It was an honor to perform there, and almost physically ran in to Terry Gross by accident as well

 

[SFIV1967]

They started making the KWM (WMI factory) models in 2015, as mine is that.

Cool, I didn't find a 2015 one, so I updated my post above!

It certainly is odd that the normal HB-1 pickups are on it.

I need to find my post when I posted about the change of the humbuckers in 2014. That's why I said it was most probably planned and implemented under FMIC management at SPG already and CMG did that change to WMI afterwards only. The guitar still shown on the Guild webpage is a 2014 SPG made one with HB-1:

S-100 Polara Cherry Red (DISCONTINUED) | Guild Guitars

With its solid and slightly offset mahogany body, the new S-100 Polara™ evokes its esteemed and hard-rocking predecessor of more than 40 years ago.

guildguitars.com

I swapped out the 50's era truss rod cover (which should only be used for that era of models IMO) for a 70's repro ($5 on ebay), and the yellow switch tip for a black one.

I like it! Much better!

The no-name tuners on the image you posted above and on mine are Grover, as you can see just beneath the sprockets, and the edges are a little softer and the shafts are thicker.

Excellent input! I forgot checking them close up and didn't notice they had also Grover on them. So SPG used custom 18:1 97 series and WMI standard 14:1 98 series tuners. I changed my post above.

Thanks for the great feedback!

Ralf

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Cool, I didn't find a 2015 one, so I updated my post above!

I need to find my post when I posted about the change of the humbuckers in 2014. That's why I said it was most probably planned and implemented under FMIC management at SPG already and CMG did that change to WMI afterwards only. The guitar still shown on the Guild webpage is a 2014 SPG made one with HB-1:

S-100 Polara Cherry Red (DISCONTINUED) | Guild Guitars

With its solid and slightly offset mahogany body, the new S-100 Polara™ evokes its esteemed and hard-rocking predecessor of more than 40 years ago.

guildguitars.com

I like it! Much better!

Excellent input! I forgot checking them close up and didn't notice they had also Grover on them. So SPG used custom 18:1 97 series and WMI standard 14:1 98 series tuners. I changed my post above.

Thanks for the great feedback!

Ralf

Yea it’s crazy that SPG went for some vintage specs and not for others. The 18:1 tuning ratio is certainly a plus, but I have no real practical issues with my 14:1 WMI model. I’m sure there are many variations of this guitar that we are unaware of, but it’s good to be able to sift through the mudd and get to core issues whether good or bad. They are using the 18:1 tuners on the new Starfire 1 line and should just implement this across the board. Hopefully the new Polaras will have every singe gripe we have resolved lol!

 

[SFIV1967]

They are using the 18:1 tuners on the new Starfire 1 line and should just implement this across the board.

Well, depends....
P.T. Samick in Indonesia (Starfire I line) are using "Guild tuners" which are called "Guild Vintage 18 Open Gear Tuners" in the specs on the webpage. No idea who manufactures them. Either cheaper Chinese made copies or cheaper OEM from a brand manufacturer.
Left Starfire I line, right Korean Starfire III: Clearly different. (Grover using much thicker material)

I’m sure there are many variations of this guitar that we are unaware of,...

Not sure why you think so? Anything else would have been only internal trials but there were only 3 issued production versions since 2013. (SPG LB-1, SPG HB-1, WMI HB-1).


FMIC had internal prototypes from various factories in 2011 like the one Bonneville88 owns:

S100 Prototype?

Has this been posted before? S100 prototype? Really?

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

 

[jp]

Nice tasteful playing Dylan! I dig your playing style. And you've got quite the collection of Guild family guitars, too.

I'm curious about the '61 Starfire III "Blue Star" in your signature. Is that a refin? Got any pics? A few of us here have a thing for Blue guitars. :C)

Sorry for the veer.

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Well, depends....
P.T. Samick in Indonesia (Starfire I line) are using "Guild tuners" which are called "Guild Vintage 18 Open Gear Tuners" in the specs on the webpage. No idea who manufactures them. Either cheaper Chinese made copies or cheaper OEM from a brand manufacturer.
Left Starfire I line, right Korean Starfire III: Clearly different. (Grover using much thicker material)






Not sure why you think so? Anything else would have been only internal trials but there were only 3 issued production versions since 2013. (SPG LB-1, SPG HB-1, WMI HB-1).


FMIC had internal prototypes from various factories in 2011 like the one Bonneville88 owns:

S100 Prototype?

Has this been posted before? S100 prototype? Really?

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

Correct, the new Starfire 1 tuners are OEM and don’t say Grover but they are very simple machines and in terms of accuracy and build quality, they are identical to the Grovers. My comment was really more about the accuracy of the 18:1 over 14:1, although not widely different. Personally, it doesn’t matter to me, unless I was seeking something with vintage aesthetic and wanted the same electronics and dimensions of a 70’s Polara. I would hope that when Guild makes a USA line (hopefully) they would consider all of these things. I actually dig the Kolb tuners that were on some of the first run of Polaras in 1970/71. The open-back Grovers were 12:1, and the Butterbean Grovers installed from 72-76, although accurate, look too large on the headstock to me. To each their own!

And yes, “variations” is mostly a reference to prototypes, there are a lot of them floating around, especially during this particular transition phase. It’s probably more noticeable then other manufacturers because the actual production line is generally small and even if there are a few prototypes floating around they will make their way on to Reverb / Ebay, and we will end up spending days discussing it . Given Guilds history, i wouldn’t be surprised to see some pretty wacky ones, unlike the one Bonneville88 owns (looks pretty cool ).

Dylan

 

[Dylan McGee Jones]

Nice tasteful playing Dylan! I dig your playing style. And you've got quite the collection of Guild family guitars, too.

I'm curious about the '61 Starfire III "Blue Star" in your signature. Is that a refin? Got any pics? A few of us here have a thing for Blue guitars. :C)

Sorry for the veer.

Yes! Its all original minus the missing pick guard (the images show a vintage rosewood bridge which i initially put on for tonal reasons, the original rocker bridge is back on, it actually is much better in terms of tone/intonation/vibrato accuracy). Apparently "Blue Star" was one of the custom colors offered in the early 60's, as @hansmoust verified. Ive never seen another one, and its more of a teal than blue, probably obviously blue back in the 60's. The Emerald Green ones fade to grey in a similar way that this one has, but you can see the blue behind where the pick guard was and where the belly mark is on the back.

I love these guitars, and im happy to be a part of this community! I do my best to put them to the test too, been learning a lot more about them during the pandemic and have fixed up quite a few. I have to update my list! And thank you for checking out the Tiny Desk video, it was an honor to be there!

Dylan

 

[jp]

Wow! I don't believe I even knew that blue was a custom color for older Starfires. I think yours is the first one I've ever seen, too. That's really cool! Also, it looks like one of the early super structures that's laminated maple instead of mahogany. That's quite the rare bird you have there. Hans should include it in the much awaited volume 2 Guild Book.

Thanks for posting pics!