NAMM 2021 Reimagined Starfire Bass

[Minnesota Flats]

Not counting the GSR (since it was made in such limited numbers and offered at such a high price point) why they only issued the NS M85 as a one pup bass and only in a single, opaque "color" (black) is something which has always baffled me. I think it goes a long way towards explaining why it was not a smashing commercial success.

Oh well, what do I know?

 

[GGJaguar]

Starfire I Bass Cherry Red | Guild Guitars

An iconic shape at an affordable price, Guild’s Starfire I Bass is a modern adaptation of the traditional Starfire Bass platform.

guildguitars.com

I'm sure this will appeal to a lot of players, but the aesthetics leave me flat.

 

[SFIV1967]

This new model isn't a Starfire bass to me. Looks more like a Staronado or Coronafire bass.

Not sure I see anything that looks even close...

Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

why they would discontinue ... the hollow NS Aristocrat w the Franz reissues...is baffling.

Why do you think they discontinued her? Looks like a regular production model according to the Guild webpage:

M-75 Aristocrat Antique Sunburst | Guild Guitars

Guild's compact & lightweight M-75 Aristocrat model expertly evokes its predecessor of the early 1950s, with a gracefully sculpted single-cutaway hollow body specifically designed to produce the resonance of a larger instrument.

guildguitars.com

Guild M-75 Aristocrat Hollowbody Electric Guitar - Antique Sunburst

Hollowbody Electric Guitar with Laminated Spruce Top, Mahogany Back and Sides, 3-pc Mahogany/Maple Neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Antique Sunburst

www.sweetwater.com

Ralf

 

[mavuser]

Why do you think they discontinued her? Looks like a regular production model according to the Guild webpage:

M-75 Aristocrat Antique Sunburst | Guild Guitars

Guild's compact & lightweight M-75 Aristocrat model expertly evokes its predecessor of the early 1950s, with a gracefully sculpted single-cutaway hollow body specifically designed to produce the resonance of a larger instrument.

guildguitars.com

Guild M-75 Aristocrat Hollowbody Electric Guitar - Antique Sunburst

Hollowbody Electric Guitar with Laminated Spruce Top, Mahogany Back and Sides, 3-pc Mahogany/Maple Neck, Rosewood Fingerboard, and 2 Single-coil Pickups - Antique Sunburst

www.sweetwater.com

Ralf

i thought they had, if so the one at Sweetwater is old stock, or Guild has started to make them again. or I am wrong

 

[SFIV1967]

or Guild has started to make them again.

At least the original 2013 sunburst version was always on the webpage. What is no longer on the webpage is the black version, that one seems to be no longer offered.
Ralf

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Now that the "initial shock" is wearing off, I keep bouncing back and forth between warming up visually to the new design and deciding, "nah". I think what bothers me most is the separate, chrome frames on the pups, which emphasizes the "stagger" too much. Might look better if a single, rectangular frame enclosed to two.

Or maybe I've just spent "a little bit" too much time over the last several decades staring at the classic, Starfire Bass configuration...

---Sincerely, Mr. Fussy Pants, Nit-Picker in Chief

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Here's an example of a large, staggered pup that looks better to me. I realize that it's staggered in a different way (every other pole piece staggered, only one pole piece per string, each pole piece with a separtely-wound coil, etc.) but it gives a general idea of the appearance of what I'm proposing, which I think looks better:


Another example:

 

[hieronymous]

I believe "regular" Guild bridge spacing from string to string is 17mm or thereabouts. To me, that's what I'm used to and it feels like home. 19mm is standard Fender spacing, which makes for an extra 6mm across all 4 strings. Very noticeable difference in feel, but more importantly here, if they're trying to save money by implementing a regular precision style pickup, they need the string spacing to line up with the poles.
Personally, the most important and impactful measurement to my technique is the "short-scale", from nut to bridge saddle, though 19mm bridge spacing does feel a little bit clumsy to me after years of playing a Starfire

I'm not convinced this is a standard Split-Coil P-Bass pickup - maybe it is a new design that is supposed to visually combine the Bi-Sonic vibe with the humcancelling and generally accepted SCPB design? Kind of like how the new Mustang basses have a PJ setup - to me it looks awful but to someone who wouldn't normally go for a short scale maybe by giving it "standard" "traditional" Fender pickups it makes it more appealing?

Now that the "initial shock" is wearing off, I keep bouncing back and forth between warming up visually to the new design and deciding, "nah". I think what bothers me most is the separate, chrome frames on the pups, which emphasizes the "stagger" too much. Might look better if a single, rectangular frame enclosed to two.

Or maybe I've just spent "a little bit" too much time over the last several decades staring at the classic, Starfire Bass configuration...

---Sincerely, Mr. Fussy Pants, Nit-Picker in Chief

I kind of like the pickup look - to me it brings to mind the Bi-Sonic with the chrome surrounding the black with pole pieces. But I personally have zero interest in the bass or the pickups.

 

[fronobulax]

Interesting insights.

I'm inclined to view everything in light of "how can we make it for less" so I am expecting an off the shelf P style pickup and an off the shelf Fender spaced bridge. Or both parts are used in other instruments and easily shipped to Indonesia. Waiting until more specs and sound clips are released.

Guild makes money by manufacturing guitars and selling them new. They make no money from the vintage instruments we cherish and buy when we can. I would be interested to have the opinion of someone who has never owned a Guild before and would have to save for a couple of months to pay $1,000 (round number picked because it is more than the street price of a NS Starfire) for an instrument. My limited experience with such folks is that they might like this bass and the choice between it and a Newark Street Starfire I might be driven by price. Sometimes you go with the bird in hand, so to speak.

I can imagine buying it out of curiosity but I can't imagine it replacing anything currently in the stable except the Newark Street.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Interesting insights.

I'm inclined to view everything in light of "how can we make it for less" so I am expecting an off the shelf P style pickup and an off the shelf Fender spaced bridge. Or both parts are used in other instruments and easily shipped to Indonesia. Waiting until more specs and sound clips are released.

Guild makes money by manufacturing guitars and selling them new. They make no money from the vintage instruments we cherish and buy when we can. I would be interested to have the opinion of someone who has never owned a Guild before and would have to save for a couple of months to pay $1,000 (round number picked because it is more than the street price of a NS Starfire) for an instrument. My limited experience with such folks is that they might like this bass and the choice between it and a Newark Street Starfire I might be driven by price. Sometimes you go with the bird in hand, so to speak.

I can imagine buying it out of curiosity but I can't imagine it replacing anything currently in the stable except the Newark Street.

Yeah...I think we'd certainly all like to see Guild continue on as a "going concern", despite whatever the nuances of our various aesthetic and sonic tastes may be.

 

[fronobulax]

Things could be worse.

... doesn't mean you should. Coming to a dealer near you, the Jackson Rickencision. Yikes.

 

[Rambozo96]

Things could be worse.

If I didn’t know any better I’m guessing someone at Jackson is trying to get under RIC and John Hall’s skin

 

[mavuser]

this bass doesnt make sense to me from a marketing stand point. it only competes with the Newark Street Guild SF bass. If Guild wants to make basses in Indonesia, why not make the JS bass there? they already have an S-100 tooled up. then the Indonesian Guild JS bass could compete with the Indonesian Epiphone SG/EB bass, instead of just cutting into Guild Newark Street sales. just a head scratcher all around.

 

[lungimsam]

Good point.

 

[krysh]

I think it is an interesting approach. a short scale with 19mm string spacing would definately be interesting for me, but I have to play it to say more....
I like that guild tries something new. And I know a lot people that don't like Guild basses because of their slim necks...

 

[SFIV1967]

If Guild wants to make basses in Indonesia, why not make the JS bass there?

My understanding is that a true copy of a vintage JS bass would come from WMI in Korea who is responsible for the "almost vintage correct" solid bodies.
Because Indonesia seems to be only used for hollow/semi-hollow models that are not historically correct or lower cost or that simply didn't exist in the past (like the Starfire I Jet 90 or that bass here).
Same applies for Yako in China offering new style solidbodies (Jetstar, Aristocrat P90, Aristocrat HH.)
So a vintage copy of a JS bass would come from WMI according to my logic.
Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

this bass doesnt make sense to me from a marketing stand point. it only competes with the Newark Street Guild SF bass. If Guild wants to make basses in Indonesia, why not make the JS bass there? they already have an S-100 tooled up. then the Indonesian Guild JS bass could compete with the Indonesian Epiphone SG/EB bass, instead of just cutting into Guild Newark Street sales. just a head scratcher all around.

I appreciate your passion for a reissue JS. I remain uncertain about whether anyone else in the market for a new bass shares your passion and it seems pretty obvious that the people at Guild making marketing production prioritizations and decisions do not see the potential to make enough money by doing so.

I agree it might compete with the NS Starfire but I think the price points reduce that competition.

In keeping with the LTG tradition of extrapolating from a very small sample, adding anecdotes and treating the result as indisputable fact, I showed pictures of both Starfires to a teenaged friend who does not play and the newer one, with the tailpiece was deemed "cooler". If you extrapolate my marketing to Guild's focus groups or just admit they aren't trying to sell these to people over 30, with jobs and incomes above the poverty line it really seems to make sense.

I think most of the angst about the new model stems from annoyance because most of us at LTG are not in the target market.

IMO. YMMV and I think mavuser and I are still friends

 

[mavuser]

u make some excellent points, but still it is hard to argue that they are not cutting into their own sales. if bass A is double the price of bass B, then maybe they will break even in the end, or begin to make less of bass A. i suppose the real questions are exactly how expensive is a new NS SF-1 bass and exactly how cheap is this newer NAMM variant, in 2021? if one is $1,300 and the other is $300...then I get it. possibly NS SF bass will only be double pickup model moving forward, creating more of a gap like that.

 

[fronobulax]

u make some excellent points, but still it is hard to argue that they are not cutting into their own sales. if bass A is double the price of bass B, then maybe they will break even in the end, or begin to make less of bass A. i suppose the real questions are exactly how expensive is a new NS SF-1 bass and exactly how cheap is this newer NAMM variant, in 2021? if one is $1,300 and the other is $300...then I get it. possibly NS SF bass will only be double pickup model moving forward, creating more of a gap like that.

I can definitely imagine a future where the entry level instrument is this new Starfire, and the new upgrade is a Newark Street Starfire Bass II. NS Starfire I's will disappear from the new market.