NAMM 2016: Guild Guitars releases USA-made M-20 and D-20

[SFIV1967]

No offense Ralf, but I'd be surprised if either of these were as good as Martin's 15 series. The D20 would have to be awful good to be better than the last D15 I played, and that might happen at some point, but likely not out of the box at Oxnard.

I understand what you say and knew that the D-15 series is good, but a Martin D-15M is not much different from the new Guild D-20 as it looks. My comment initially was wrong as I thought the 15 series has those odd laminated necks, but they seem to have real mahogany necks. So I was wrong.

Acoustic Guitar interview with Ren Ferguson and introduction of the new models is here:
http://acousticguitar.com/ren-ferguson-unveils-the-first-guitars-from-the-new-guild-factory/

Thanks for that link! So the finish on the D-20 and M-20 is a "catalyzed varnished finish". That info was the only new info I spotted in the video. It certainly speeds up production vs a sprayed nitro. But Ren also mentioned that the higher end guitars will get nitro again.

Ralf

 

[Westerly Wood]

Warranty.
OR if you're TXbumper, because it's a new factory.
:biggrin-new:

Another LTGer has posted a similar answer Al, Brick I think. I get that, but for me, I would rather forego warranty in order to get a higher end older Guild, even if it requires work, as I know what the tone is going to be like, I know how it will play, and I appreciate the history. And at the moment, I think I would prefer and MIC Guild, even a Westerly Collection over a D20 or M20 just for what I would be getting at the price point. That is saying a lot for me, as I really do not dig Poly, but just do not have even entry level US Guild funds now. And still, I would scour reverb, ebay and CL for a D35 or something as such I could get for price of Westerly Collection. So many old Guilds out there to salvage, that would always be my first choice, assuming say even 5-600 in GAS funds.

again, please, this is one man's opinion, I will be thrilled to watch and follow the NGDs for the D and M20s as they start pouring in on LTG, encouraging and cheering them on.

 

[Rayk]

Westerly Guitar center having a used sale , thought I saw a guild d25 or 35 under 400 when I get time I'll take another look

 

[Westerly Wood]

Westerly Guitar center having a used sale , thought I saw a guild d25 or 35 under 400 when I get time I'll take another look

wow, those prices are crazy low. maybe guilds have issues like high action and low saddle/ Westerly GC?

 

[geoguy]

I think he was referring to you, with the word "Westerly". And referring to Guitar Center in general.

 

[Br1ck]

I'm fully in agreement with your preference for the old. The early 70s is my sweet spot for Guilds. Every Guild I've played from 1970-73 has been a great guitar, and though I have what some would think an insane $1300 in my 1970 D 35, I have never for a second regretted it. But, I think for the market as a whole, we would be in the minority.

I'm hoping the new Guilds will be significantly better than the Westerly series, witch I think they will be, because Ren Furguson and Cordoba know better the marketplace will demand it.

 

[jcwu]

I am spending that on an older Guild with nitro etc...I learned my lesson long ago re satin finish and spending that $.

I, for one, love the satin finish on my JV52, and it's nitro to boot. I think just because it's satin doesn't mean it's not nitro. Having said that, I haven't followed the specs on the new D20/M20, not sure if they're nitro or not. Or has it been confirmed that they're not nitro?

 

[Rayk]

Yes lol keep it interesting I say , thanks for the save geoguy Lmao .... Yes a guitar that guitar center has in used inventory . Still don't know the model for sure or shape looked ok but only one pic which is stupid if ya ask me lol .
Ok back to the original topic

 

[adorshki]

I, for one, love the satin finish on my JV52, and it's nitro to boot. I think just because it's satin doesn't mean it's not nitro. Having said that, I haven't followed the specs on the new D20/M20, not sure if they're nitro or not. Or has it been confirmed that they're not nitro?

Post #61 in this thread contains link Ralf mentions (thanks Merlin):

Thanks for that link! So the finish on the D-20 and M-20 is a "catalyzed varnished finish". That info was the only new info I spotted in the video. It certainly speeds up production vs a sprayed nitro. But Ren also mentioned that the higher end guitars will get nitro again.
Ralf

So Ralf interprets it as "not NCL".
Google search for "catalyzed varnish" yields:
http://www.woodshopnews.com/columns...47-for-resistance-varnishes-are-tough-to-beat

 

[chazmo]

Yup, the video makes it clear it's not NCL (lacquer). Ren said it was the first time he'd worked with this new finish. It'll be interesting to get more details. It's unclear whether the varnish that they're using on the M-20 / D-20 can be done in a gloss.

It was pretty clear from the video that Ren is expecting to use NCL (gloss) in the future for the Traditional guitars. And, yes, NCL can be satin or gloss.

 

[Smitch]

Born in the USA!

 

[SFIV1967]

Yup, the video makes it clear it's not NCL (lacquer). Ren said it was the first time he'd worked with this new finish.

Ren said, he saved "$1000" for a laquer job on those new models by using a "catalyzed varnish finish". Not sure if a real NCL spray job would really add $1000 however...

But he didn't say it is the first time he worked with such "catalyzed varnish finish", he said he didn't use it since the days of the Flatiron Mandolins in Bozeman/MT 30 years ago! So it's an old finish indeed!
It might be the same two-part catalyzed coating named "Fullerplast" (Fuller for Fuller O'Brien, the products creator) which Fender used since 1963. Flatiron Mandolins used it as well in the 80ies I read, that is how I came to that idea and Ren mentions Flatiron 30 years ago... A Fullerplast datasheet from 2007 can be seen here: http://portal.gemini-coatings.com/assets/pdf_pds/353-00,353-02,353-50.pdf

Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

Oh, and there are four new pictures from Guild: (to bad they use again an out of focus cheap kind of camera, maybe even a cell phone...)

Note the new style of label!

Ralf

 

[merlin6666]

Will be interesting to see what kind of serial numbering they get.

 

[SFIV1967]

Video from Sweetwater in 1080p HD, you also see the bracing shown. "20:1 gear ratio tuners" used.

Looks like the round label only shows the model name and "Made in Oxnard, CA". So I assume the serial number is hidden on the inside neck block like the Westerly Collection guitars have.



Ralf

 

[Rayk]

Wonder a little on how they decide on the bracing and scalloping . What hits the " Ding " button ? Do they have something to measure frequencies or just a by ear thing ?

 

[AcornHouse]

It'll be interesting to compare a vintage one to the new ones to see if these are the "best version ever" or not.

 

[adorshki]

Do they have something to measure frequencies or just a by ear thing ?

That's a great question.
So many implications.

 

[kostask]

Hand builders usually tune by ear, in general. It isn't just a frequency measurement, it is attack, sustain, volume, and overtones that they are listening for. I don't have any idea how Ren Ferguson does it with any certainty, but suspect that he would also do it by ear. Hand builders do have the time and luxury of tuning each guitar individually to the particular piece of wood top they are using; factories don't do that.

 

[Rayk]

Hand builders usually tune by ear, in general. It isn't just a frequency measurement, it is attack, sustain, volume, and overtones that they are listening for. I don't have any idea how Ren Ferguson does it with any certainty, but suspect that he would also do it by ear. Hand builders do have the time and luxury of tuning each guitar individually to the particular piece of wood top they are using; factories don't do that.

Mass production is a stickler only hopes would be making dang sure your wood quality stays consistent but man each guitar will be it's own for sure as we know many times wood two feet up the tree does not sound anything like the wood two feet below.

I find this very interesting and now wonder if tap testing in the field is used and then picking a said amount of off stock based off that for a run of x-many till the next batch can be tested and selected for say run 2 . k my head is hurting hahahaha break time