Terry Allan Hall
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Wow...$375 is what I paid for my '72 F212XL 24 years ago...SWEET SCORE!
Meet my new $375 F-212XL the "mojo master"
- Thread starter Chaz
- Start date
Chaz
Member
Thanks for the kind words everyone, glad you all like it!
I have really been enjoying it myself. I've actually played it a lot over the last few days I've had it, even though the action is currently literally double what I set my other 12 to. The sound is just fantastic; really "big", for lack of a better word (as Westerly said). I also find the narrow neck real comfortable for me.
I'll certainly keep everyone updated on it; I'll probably make a repair thread in the "Tech Shop" section when I start on it. I'm going to go after the practice guitar real soon; I can't wait to get this one back to playing like it sounds!
I have really been enjoying it myself. I've actually played it a lot over the last few days I've had it, even though the action is currently literally double what I set my other 12 to. The sound is just fantastic; really "big", for lack of a better word (as Westerly said). I also find the narrow neck real comfortable for me.
I'll certainly keep everyone updated on it; I'll probably make a repair thread in the "Tech Shop" section when I start on it. I'm going to go after the practice guitar real soon; I can't wait to get this one back to playing like it sounds!
iWood
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Nice. I'll look forward to seeing the surgery, always interested on what that actually looks like, 'cause it's scary to me.
I need to find out where the used 12s are hanging out, in my neck of the woods.
Hey, so was Pete Townshend. You're in good company.
I need to find out where the used 12s are hanging out, in my neck of the woods.
Hey, so was Pete Townshend. You're in good company.
Chaz
Member
Did a little something today. I need to re-lube the tuners where the grease has hardened (replacement "sealed" Schallers). This was the first time I have even had the strings off.
Some may have noticed the bridge has been hacked out for a very wide saddle. (I'm not sure why, but I think it could have been to try to fix intonation changes as the neck block rolled?) Anyway, I could see a black outline around the saddle that made me curious; when I removed it, all was made clear.
That's got to be the first time a guitar has given me legal advise! A soft, folded paper shim; that's certainly good for sound quality. Let's see what's under that.
What looks like wood putty, stained with some "ebony" stuff. Nice, just nice. For an added bonus, it's not even close to level, either. I made up that crude little sanding block in a few seconds to true it up some; I had a test to run!
You can see how poor the contact was (I trued it up a little more after I took the picture).
So, I strung it back up after that. THERE WE GO! While it (surprisingly!) sounded good before, I thought that the upper mid-range & treble was duller than it should be; I figured that the messed-up bridge/saddle probably had something to do with that. Didn't expect how bad it was, though! (I haven't even messed with the grooved-up saddle as of now--still more improvement to be made there.) It also was causing a sound somewhat similar to a loose brace rattle that I noticed would occur from certain notes (12th fret 3rd or 4th string harmonic mostly, IIRC).
Now it sounds like it really should again! That kind of warm & full, yet still very clear sound you expect to come from a Guild; just superb. I'd certainly call this one a keeper--really glad I bought it.
And, no, I didn't ever get around to taking the strings back off and greasing the tuners... I think you all probably know that.
Some may have noticed the bridge has been hacked out for a very wide saddle. (I'm not sure why, but I think it could have been to try to fix intonation changes as the neck block rolled?) Anyway, I could see a black outline around the saddle that made me curious; when I removed it, all was made clear.
That's got to be the first time a guitar has given me legal advise! A soft, folded paper shim; that's certainly good for sound quality. Let's see what's under that.
What looks like wood putty, stained with some "ebony" stuff. Nice, just nice. For an added bonus, it's not even close to level, either. I made up that crude little sanding block in a few seconds to true it up some; I had a test to run!
You can see how poor the contact was (I trued it up a little more after I took the picture).
So, I strung it back up after that. THERE WE GO! While it (surprisingly!) sounded good before, I thought that the upper mid-range & treble was duller than it should be; I figured that the messed-up bridge/saddle probably had something to do with that. Didn't expect how bad it was, though! (I haven't even messed with the grooved-up saddle as of now--still more improvement to be made there.) It also was causing a sound somewhat similar to a loose brace rattle that I noticed would occur from certain notes (12th fret 3rd or 4th string harmonic mostly, IIRC).
Now it sounds like it really should again! That kind of warm & full, yet still very clear sound you expect to come from a Guild; just superb. I'd certainly call this one a keeper--really glad I bought it.
And, no, I didn't ever get around to taking the strings back off and greasing the tuners... I think you all probably know that.
Last edited:
Westerly Wood
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This 12 is very fortunate you bought her. It's your version of Sea Biscuit.
12 string
Senior Member
I don't think the wide saddle slot necessarily indicates a neck block problem. Several of us have 12ers with sawtooth looking saddles with the contact points for the low octave bass strings moved back as far as possible. It certainly improves the low bass intonation but to make it better still you need widen the saddle slot to make more room.
I have yet to take it that far.
Congratz! Several of my guitars are rescues also.
' Strang
I have yet to take it that far.
Congratz! Several of my guitars are rescues also.
' Strang
Chaz
Member
Oh, I know it has a neck block problem, I'm just not sure if the wide saddle was an attempt to correct the resulting intonation change. (I actually did the individual string compensation on my other 12; it certainly removes some of the 12-string sweetness when the octave string beats like it's the wrong note!)
Anyway, more progress; I removed the old fretboard and bridge, and will get all the supplies I need ordered over the next couple days. Next I will remove the neck and begin to deal with the horrors relating to the neck block and joint. (I'll just say that there is a shim/wedge wedged into the end of the dovetail pocket from the fretboard side...) I'll get some more pictures as I get more stuff done.
So far I'm actually enjoying this all more than I planned; for whatever reason I would have thought that taking everything apart would be much more objectionable. I haven't destroyed the guitar (yet...), and I feel that by the time I get finished with this one I'll be fairly confident in working on one that doesn't look like it was previously repaired by a caveman (and having it not look like that when I'm done, of course).
Anyway, more progress; I removed the old fretboard and bridge, and will get all the supplies I need ordered over the next couple days. Next I will remove the neck and begin to deal with the horrors relating to the neck block and joint. (I'll just say that there is a shim/wedge wedged into the end of the dovetail pocket from the fretboard side...) I'll get some more pictures as I get more stuff done.
So far I'm actually enjoying this all more than I planned; for whatever reason I would have thought that taking everything apart would be much more objectionable. I haven't destroyed the guitar (yet...), and I feel that by the time I get finished with this one I'll be fairly confident in working on one that doesn't look like it was previously repaired by a caveman (and having it not look like that when I'm done, of course).
Great find and nice work. Good luck with it, I'll be following your progress.
I just picked up an old F212 in really rough condition. I started new thread title:
" Repairing old Guild 12 String...help or suggestions welcome "
Look forward to more updates.
Take Care
I just picked up an old F212 in really rough condition. I started new thread title:
" Repairing old Guild 12 String...help or suggestions welcome "
Look forward to more updates.
Take Care
Chaz
Member
Small update; cleaned and re-lubed tuners (weird enclosed Schaller things with plastic housings), got the new fretboard in, and have roughed out my new bridge somewhat (used a piece of what I think to be Persimmon for the job; adds a little personal touch to it, as if there weren't enough already!). Still need to remove the neck. Here's a picture of the horror in the meantime.
Truly first-class work there, eh?
Truly first-class work there, eh?
GardMan
Enlightened Member
Looks to me like it was left in a hot car, and the neck block started to slip (with attending cracks along the fret board into the sound hole... note the way the neck has pushed in the binding and purfling in front of the dovetail.). Then, instead of pulling the neck block back into position, someone just (I hope) glued it up in its new position and then shimmed the neck to correct the angle.
Good luck... looks like quite an adventure. Looking forward to following the restoration!
Good luck... looks like quite an adventure. Looking forward to following the restoration!
Chaz
Member
That seems spot on Dave, and was exactly what I was thinking happened to it. After I get the neck off and get all the glue cleaned out I'll make a better assessment of it all and decide what I'm going to do. If I want/need to take it apart further it's not like I have to worry about messing the finish up or anything, lol. (The checking doesn't bother me much, but the attempt at color matching (opaque dark purple!) on spots of the back/sides is ugly enough that I have actually considered refinishing it anyway.)
I'm going to try to come up with a steam rig to remove the neck tomorrow; I'll keep you all posted. I'm certainly looking forward to getting to putting it all back together and getting it playing again!
I'm going to try to come up with a steam rig to remove the neck tomorrow; I'll keep you all posted. I'm certainly looking forward to getting to putting it all back together and getting it playing again!
Grad77
Member
If she could talk she would say, "Thank you for rescuing me!!" Good find!
FloridaGull
Junior Member
john_m
Junior Member
That pic of the neck reset is gonna haunt me tonight.
Chaz
Member
Now in more pieces!
I haven't made an update in a while, so here y'all go! You can guess where this is going...
I tried to remove the neck from the old Fender I bought as a test first; no wonder I had trouble finding the dovetail pocket! Doweled neck joint. Still came off, though! I guess I drilled into a dowel hole or something; haven't checked. So much for practice! Forging on...
I made a little plate out of scrap aluminum so I could keep the steam in the joint better without the fretboard on. Sealed the edges with some putty; worked nicely.
Sucess! After a few minutes of steaming and wiggling, the bottom of the joint finally let go and the neck came off.
Not as bad as I probably would have thought (I scraped a bunch of that nasty glue off after I took the blurry phone pictures). Removal itself went well, and I'll have to say that I'm still enjoying the project.
Still need to decide what to do about the neck block; might post a few pictures of that later. I also need to decide about the finish itself; I'm thinking of at least refinishing the back/sides and neck, and the top would also make sense considering how thick and orange-like it is.
Chaz
I haven't made an update in a while, so here y'all go! You can guess where this is going...
I tried to remove the neck from the old Fender I bought as a test first; no wonder I had trouble finding the dovetail pocket! Doweled neck joint. Still came off, though! I guess I drilled into a dowel hole or something; haven't checked. So much for practice! Forging on...
I made a little plate out of scrap aluminum so I could keep the steam in the joint better without the fretboard on. Sealed the edges with some putty; worked nicely.
Sucess! After a few minutes of steaming and wiggling, the bottom of the joint finally let go and the neck came off.
Not as bad as I probably would have thought (I scraped a bunch of that nasty glue off after I took the blurry phone pictures). Removal itself went well, and I'll have to say that I'm still enjoying the project.
Still need to decide what to do about the neck block; might post a few pictures of that later. I also need to decide about the finish itself; I'm thinking of at least refinishing the back/sides and neck, and the top would also make sense considering how thick and orange-like it is.
Chaz
Chaz
Member
I'll add my current thoughts on the neck block conundrum; it's partially loose from the top, but seems like it's still on the back and sides pretty good. There's a block wedged and glued in bracing it against the top bracing and what looks like binding tape in between it and the top (!?!?!), but otherwise it seems OK. My idea is to take a jewelers saw and finish cutting from the soundhole to the cracks and remove that part of the top with heat, then remove the "wedge" and clean everything up and glue it back together "right" with some additional bracing using hide glue. Thoughts?